New to the AvA, how does it work?

[Slash27]

BTW there are no 'rules' that you HAVE to follow just some guidelines that some ask you to take in to consideration so you don't ruin other peoples fun.

 

[Larry]

You know what...  I spent a few hours in the AvA a couple weeks ago.  My squad decided to accept an invitiation to participate in an AvA mission.  You AvA guys are fooling yourselves about some mysterious honor system.  My AvA experience included the same gangings and HOs that I expect in the MA.  We went into the AvA hoping for something different, personally I only found more of the same.  Just on a smaller scale.

More power to you AvA guys, hope you continue to enjoy yourselves there.  Unless things change, I won't be back there.  I can find the same type of fights in the Main Arena.  Honestly, you really should consider not trying to advertise your Arena as "The Honorable Place to Find the Perfect Fight that isn't a Gangfest or HO festival'.  You simply aren't what you're pushing, in my opinion.  You would be better served by pushing the historical matchups and changing scenarios a little more, that's really the only thing that distinguishes you from the MA.  Those of us who have visited the AvA arena hoping for a better fight just get more disappointed by the same old dweebery and don't really want to try again.

Just my opinion, use it to help yourselves...  Or not...  Your choice...

Best of luck to you.

 

This an example someone confusing Wednesday Night Missions with regular AvA fights. They are clearly two different things and he didn't know what he was getting himself into. There was a mission going on which involved a bomber force, its escort, and defenders trying to stop the invaders. Not 100% if this was him  and if it wasn't I'm sorry, but he complained that the escorts ganged him while he was trying to kill bombers. Well what do expect them to do sit there and watch you kill all the bombers? They were doing their job and that was to protect the bombers.

Now if he would have come in the arena any other time there would have been a good chance of him finding some good fights. Instead he came in the arena on the one night where flying at 20k and flying 'historical' isn't frowned upon by the rest of the arena.

On the other hand Iv had some people that have never come into the AvA or just don't like it tell me after a mission that they will join in on one each time I run one.

[PFactorDave]

This an example someone confusing Wednesday Night Missions with regular AvA fights. They are clearly two different things and he didn't know what he was getting himself into. There was a mission going on which involved a bomber force, its escort, and defenders trying to stop the invaders. Not 100% if this was him  and if it wasn't I'm sorry, but he complained that the escorts ganged him while he was trying to kill bombers. Well what do expect them to do sit there and watch you kill all the bombers? They were doing their job and that was to protect the bombers.

Wrong.  I entered the AvA arena about 3 hours before the mission.  I had bought the "spin", thought it sounded good.  I went to the AvA looking for this bill of goods that you continue to try to sell.  What I found in my hours before the Wed Mission?  More of the same.

Larry, I respect you.  I actually believe that there are a few guys who believe what you believe.  Unfortunately, anytime the AvA population surges above about 10 people, you get folks that don't have your ideals.  At that point, it isn't what you are selling. (Don't make the mistake of thinking I only have one AvA experience, I've been there many times).

You can continue to try and belittle my opinion if you like.  I'm just trying to help you out by showing you how the AvA is viewed by a lot of folks who have tried it and not found it to be "as advertised"...

 

[PFactorDave]

And another thing, while I'm at it...

You really should stop trying to equate yourselves to FSO.

The only thing the AvA has in common with FSO is the Allied Vs Axis set up.  Not a whole lot more.

SnapShots maybe...  FSO, nah...  There's no cohesiveness...   No planning...  No real goal...  You lack the honesty of the single life, like FSO.  The single life really changes the dynamic.  Infinite lives in AvA makes it more like the MA then anything else...

But whatever...

You might consider that your Arena is so lightly populated because it is pretty much more of the same with the aircraft choice restrictions.

[Larry]

Wrong.  I entered the AvA arena about 3 hours before the mission.  I had bought the "spin", thought it sounded good.  I went to the AvA looking for this bill of goods that you continue to try to sell.  What I found in my hours before the Wed Mission?  More of the same.

Larry, I respect you.  I actually believe that there are a few guys who believe what you believe.  Unfortunately, anytime the AvA population surges above about 10 people, you get folks that don't have your ideals.  At that point, it isn't what you are selling. (Don't make the mistake of thinking I only have one AvA experience, I've been there many times).

You can continue to try and belittle my opinion if you like.  I'm just trying to help you out by showing you how the AvA is viewed by a lot of folks who have tried it and not found it to be "as advertised"...

 

Well theres the problem right there. Other people come in and do something but we get the blame. As I said the only thing we can do is suggest guildlines. Its up to each person to decide if they will follow them or not. Iv said for years the more people that come into the AvA the crappier the fights are. There is always an exception but this is for the most part true. Unfortunately when numbers come in to the arena and a furball starts all it takes is one person to HO or pick and a chainreaction ensues.


As I said most of the time the arena has good clean fights but all it takes is one bad apple to start fighting dirty and things go wrong fast. I suggest that you try the arena again when there isn't a mission scheduled and see how you like the fights. I cant promice anything but odds are you will like what you find, and remember if something bad does happen don't go blaming it on the whole arena because of one person.


I'm not belittling your opinion. I just remember someone whining about getting ganged during the mission by escorts. Again not 100% I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I do believe it was you.

[Larry]

And another thing, while I'm at it...

You really should stop trying to equate yourselves to FSO.

The only thing the AvA has in common with FSO is the Allied Vs Axis set up.  Not a whole lot more.

SnapShots maybe...  FSO, nah...  There's no cohesiveness...   No planning...  No real goal...  You lack the honesty of the single life, like FSO.  The single life really changes the dynamic.  Infinite lives in AvA makes it more like the MA then anything else...

But whatever...

You might consider that your Arena is so lightly populated because it is pretty much more of the same with the aircraft choice restrictions.

The only person that said anything about FSO is antivortex and from my understating he only mentioned it to tell him we have setups like it. Not that its JUST LIKE it. I'm starting to get the feeling that you are someone who is only interested in putting the arena down and running others away because you didn't find what you liked from one night of arena play. Again I suggest that you put more time into the arena before coming here and saying such harsh things.

[PFactorDave]

Well theres the problem right there. Other people come in and do something but we get the blame. As I said the only thing we can do is suggest guildlines. Its up to each person to decide if they will follow them or not. Iv said for years the more people that come into the AvA the crappier the fights are. There is always an exception but this is for the most part true. Unfortunately when numbers come in to the arena and a furball starts all it takes is one person to HO or pick and a chainreaction ensues.


As I said most of the time the arena has good clean fights but all it takes is one bad apple to start fighting dirty and things go wrong fast. I suggest that you try the arena again when there isn't a mission scheduled and see how you like the fights. I cant promice anything but odds are you will like what you find, and remember if something bad does happen don't go blaming it on the whole arena because of one person.


I'm not belittling your opinion. I just remember someone whining about getting ganged during the mission by escorts. Again not 100% I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I do believe it was you.

Wow...  So the AvA is what you say it is, up until somebody else shows up?  If it is so great, why the heck are you trying so hard to attract more players?  Wow...

Every time I have visited the AvA, I've been ganged.  Just like the MA.  Almost every time I've been to the AvA, I've been HO'd...  Just like the MA...  You know what, I did complain to you after the Wednesday mission.  Just as you recall.  I complained out of frustration, because I had been in the AvA for several hours.  I had gone out of my way not to gang...  I had gone out of my way not to fire if it could even loosely be interpreted as a HO...  Our entire squad was under orders not to HO, to respect the "rules" of the Arena.  Heck, I got HO'd by the guy who later in the evening was put in charge of the opposition of the Wed Mission.  What does that say to me?  To get HO'd by a guy, then later see that he is "respected" enough in the AvA  to lead a side during a Wednesday event?

You guys in the AvA need to do some soul searching and decide what it is that you really want to be...  Then work to live up to that...  This honor and fluff garbage is pretty much just that...

Sorry...

  from a very unsatisified AvA user

[PFactorDave]

I'm starting to get the feeling that you are someone who is only interested in putting the arena down and running others away because you didn't find what you liked from one night of arena play. Again I suggest that you put more time into the arena before coming here and saying such harsh things.

Wow....  Just wow...

You guys seem really interested in drawing more interest, but the second somebody has a negative "wave" to send your way and it's all over...  Nothing I have to say is of value, apparently... 

Good luck with that then Larry...  Hope you get what you want out of the AvA. 

((Here's a hint, don't automatically slam folks who have criticism.  Some of us would love for you to succeed and can see things from a different angle then you see yourself.))


EDIT:  Oh this is priceless...  A little reading and I find this...  From a different recent thread..

 

My very 1st sortie, I was on the recieving end of a straight up dirty HO! I saw nothing to indicate it was any different then the LW arenas, other than there were less peeps in the arena overall! But in the one area that we all were at, it was "pikhoackhidefest " as usual!
As soon as I arrived squadies were complainin about the HOFEST you guys were dishin out, then I herd a squady say he vulched m00t--> LOL anyway snake and I put an end to the vulchin and any HOing that may be comin from the Unforgiven. The HOfest from the axis continued in ernest! As I told larry over private, You guys made the challenge, Get your country under control and lets get to smackin each other around! Some of the HOin was not comin from you guys but having made the challenge in an arena you are trying to promote you should be more pro-active in honoring clean fights      <S>


Oh and BTW  your propaganda is full of lies and distortions

Maybe I'm not the only person who thinks you shouldn't be pushing an Arena that really doesn't exist...

[Larry]

Since you seem to be ignoring one HUGE thing Ill say it one more time. We cannot control what other people do. WE can only give out guidelines and its up to OTHER PEOPLE to decide if they want to follow them or not. When you come in and say the every time you have been to the AvA you've been HOed or ganged then that's normal. Sure you may get one or two a night but the way you are coming off is seems that every single fight you had in the AvA has had a HO or gang. And if you can come here and tell me that each time you were in the AvA all you saw were HOs and gangs then eather you are very unlucky to come in one only bad nights or you are exaggerating. Take if from someone who is in the AvA almost every night that's not how it always is.


VWExx1 has been the guy Iv chosen to lead the defending side since he knows what goes on with them. He volunteered the first time I ran a mission and because I know he is a good leader Iv always ask him first ever since.  I know that he will follow the rules for that mission and make it fun for all sides not just the one he is on.


So I ask again, please come try the arena out again.



To your edit:

Quoting shreck isn't helping your case any. His squad came in and their first sorties ganged us 3,4,5 to 1. Then they deacked our field and started vulching. I don't know about you but when I'm getting ganged and vulched hell yes I will start HOing to try and get an even fight. He said that he called off the HOs from his squad. When I saw very little Hoing from his squad in the first place. What I did see was a MA squad coming to the AvA with MA tactics then wondering why we switched to MA tactics as well.

[E25280]

Wow...  So the AvA is what you say it is, up until somebody else shows up?  If it is so great, why the heck are you trying so hard to attract more players?  Wow...

Every time I have visited the AvA, I've been ganged.  Just like the MA.  Almost every time I've been to the AvA, I've been HO'd...  Just like the MA...  You know what, I did complain to you after the Wednesday mission.  Just as you recall.  I complained out of frustration, because I had been in the AvA for several hours.  I had gone out of my way not to gang...  I had gone out of my way not to fire if it could even loosely be interpreted as a HO...  Our entire squad was under orders not to HO, to respect the "rules" of the Arena.  Heck, I got HO'd by the guy who later in the evening was put in charge of the opposition of the Wed Mission.  What does that say to me?  To get HO'd by a guy, then later see that he is "respected" enough in the AvA  to lead a side during a Wednesday event?

You guys in the AvA need to do some soul searching and decide what it is that you really want to be...  Then work to live up to that...  This honor and fluff garbage is pretty much just that...

Sorry...

  from a very unsatisified AvA user

You can't expect everyone to fly the same way.  Everyone's opinion about the "right" way to fight is different.  Nothing wrong with that -- but it changes the dynamics of the environment.

In a competitive environment (and what other term can we use for a game where you shoot other people?), a player must adapt to be successful.  If player A normally never HOs, but is HOed every fight for 10 fights -- guess what -- he'll probably start resorting to HOing to enjoy a modicum of success.  Doesn't make it a regular practice for that individual.

The problem many seem to have is that they expect absolute consistency.  But when the names change, you simply can not have that expectation and be satisfied.  The "guidelines" that are often suggested would make the arena more fun according to those who champion them.  But if someone has a different opinion, it is much easier for that person to affect/control the enviromnment than those trying to restrict themselves to an extent.

Doesn't mean they shouldn't come in -- they absolutely should!  Maybe they will, in time, begin to see that the "guidelines" make sense and make things more fun (or not - their choice).  But people like you would do well to see that if some of the regulars adapt to the environment that results from the new faces, it is exactly that - adaptation - and not adoption of the same philosophy.

[frank3]

If the AvA is as fun as its forums, count me in

[stodd]

If the AvA is as fun as its forums, count me in

  Dont listen to Dawger, hes an idiot.

[Dinan]

from a very unsatisified AvA user

Oh no! We have a unsatisfied user!

I'm sure the CM guys are all beat up about not forfilling you're expectations of what you deem to be a satisfactory and enjoyable arena.  After all they're main job is to keep you 100% satisfied while not getting paid by HT for it. 

Those of us who have visited the AvA arena hoping for a better fight just get more disappointed by the same old dweebery and don't really want to try again.

Just my opinion, use it to help yourselves...  Or not...  Your choice...

Is it really just you're opinion or do you speak for others too? 

Bye Bye! Good luck!  Don't let the door hit you on the rear on the way out 

[Dawger]

  Dont listen to Dawger, hes an idiot.

Thanks for the compliment. And I sincerely mean that.

[Dawger]

Wow....  Just wow...

You guys seem really interested in drawing more interest, but the second somebody has a negative "wave" to send your way and it's all over...  Nothing I have to say is of value, apparently... 

Good luck with that then Larry...  Hope you get what you want out of the AvA. 

((Here's a hint, don't automatically slam folks who have criticism.  Some of us would love for you to succeed and can see things from a different angle then you see yourself.))


EDIT:  Oh this is priceless...  A little reading and I find this...  From a different recent thread..

 
Maybe I'm not the only person who thinks you shouldn't be pushing an Arena that really doesn't exist...

My experience with online flight sims (and life in general) is the folks who desperately push a set of rules are the folks that will break them most often and be the most vehement in their defense of why they broke them.