A-8, A-5, Dora

[juzz]

The maximum power the Fw 190A-5 gets from the BMW 801D is only around 1750hp@6k, and then lower(eg:1600hp@22k) above that altitude. I don't know how much power the Fw 190A-8 gains from its increased boost, but I think its around 1900hp maximum?

As for the Fw 190D-9:

 

It was powered by a Jumo 213A-1 engine rated at 1776hp for takeoff and 1600hp at 18,000 feet. However, with MW 50 (water/methanol) injection, it could give 2240hp at sea level and 2000hp at 11,150 feet.

Without MW 50, it would appear the Jumo 213A-1 has no better power than the BMW 801D.

In the end I think MW 50 is what really matters. Without it, the Dora is slightly inferior to the Mustang in performance. With MW 50, it is superior to the Mustang.

So: How many Fw 190D-9 had MW 50?

[Nath-BDP]

The Jumo had more power than the 801D at all altitudes, bar none.

[SnakeEyes]

Sure... D model's all ya need anyway.  Plus you'd be givin the poor tank drivers a chance.  

------------------
SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Hristo]

How is the deck speed, compared to P 51D ?

Is it able to dive with P 51 ?

IMO, MW 50 is effective at low and medimum alt, while not helping much at high alitudes, right ?

In William Green's "Warplanes of the Third Reich" it is stated that D-9 could make faster turn than A series and also keep speed better in the turn due to powerloading.

Could this be true ?

[Pongo]

"The Fw 190 D-9 although well armored and equipped to carry heavy armament, appears to be much less desirable from a hadling stand-point than other models of the Fw190 using he BMW radial engine. Any advantage that this airplane may have in performance over the other models of the fw190 is more then offset by its poor hanling characteristics"
USAF evaluation team.
It is easy to imagine that the gentlemen were comparing it to an A4 and that they never got it above 15k in thier tests. But it is worth considering if the plane would have near the nimbleness of the A5 especialy. (guess)It would handle at best like an A8.. It is worth noting that the US report makes special note of the armour and armement advantage of the D over the A while in the case of the A8 this was not true.
Same book(Monogram Close Up 10)
"However, as they(first operational pilots) became accoustomed to their new charges they began to revise their opinions. They discovered that the Dora 9 was faster, with better acceleration and maneuverability then the BMW-engined Focke-Wulf. Eventually they agreed that it would not only out turn the Fw190a8 but the Bf 109G as well."
Not sure how this translates to the game. I would doubt it would out turn the A5.
In comparison to the Spit IX it should out run it and out roll it. the Spit would out climb, out turn, out shoot and out dive the dora.
The spit XIV would out everything but roll the Dora.
The D14 would be a better match for the Spit XIV.

[funked]

I doubt the USAAF were flying it with MW 50.

With MW 50 I don't think the climb will be a lot worse than the Spit 9, unless we get a Merlin 66 or 70.

I'm not so sure about the "outshoot" bit.  Dora has more than twice the 20 mm ammo load than the Spit, and a 50% larger MG ammo load.  The weak ammo of the German guns (especially the MG 131) is more than offset by the vast advantage in ammo load.

What the heck is a D14?

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-07-2000).]

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by funked:
I doubt the USAAF were flying it with MW 50.

With MW 50 I don't think the climb will be a lot worse than the Spit 9, unless we get a Merlin 66 or 70.

I'm not so sure about the "outshoot" bit.  Dora has more than twice the 20 mm ammo load than the Spit, and a 50% larger MG ammo load.  The weak ammo of the German guns (especially the MG 131) is more than offset by the vast advantage in ammo load.

What the heck is a D14?

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-07-2000).]

I am not sure how to factor the extra ammo for the wing root 20mm vs the lethatlity of the spit..but unless you plan on shooting down 6 planes..the guns on the spit are better.
I was using fdskis climb numbers. over a minute dif to 20k is signifigant.

The d14 has a db603 engine (441mph at 24k)
and a engine mount 151 with 220 rounds.

[funked]

Fw 190D-14 was never produced.  D-9 airframes (Werknummer 210040 and 210043) were tested with DB603 but these were just development mules.  I know HTC has some perk planes in mind but I'm not sure if they will simulate planes that were never constructed.

Fw 190D-9 could do 435 mph at 18,700 feet with MW 50 anyways.  The 425 mph figure that is tossed around is for an aircraft without MW 50.

I'm 99% sure Fd-ski's climb numbers are not for MW 50.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-07-2000).]

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Hristo:
Fw 190A-5 and Fw 190A-8 are so much different, they seem like two totally different planes.

In A-5 I feel as safe as in F-16, while in A-8 any co-E plane makes me look for the way out. For example, in A-8 I stand no chance against well flown Hog, but that same Hog can do nothing against my A-5.

My question is : What can we expect from the Dora ?

Compared to A-5 and A-8, what are:

speed
dive,
acceleration,
roll,
wingloading,
powerloading,
sustained turn,
zoom,
climb,
turning circle,
E retention ?

Yes, I want to know everything !

Funked ?

I'd expect "lighter" plane compared to A-8 with more guts in the engine but with less powerful armament, lesser maneuverability but better vertical with slower dive.
I'd expect rolling to be also less than in A-5.

[Hristo]

 

Originally posted by funked:
F
Fw 190D-9 could do 435 mph at 18,700 feet with MW 50 anyways.  The 425 mph figure that is tossed around is for an aircraft without MW 50.

Funked, you are my hero  

Fishu, why would roll rate be affected ? I don't see any reason for that, roll inertia and ailerons are still the same.

Dive slower ? With less drag of an inline jumo ?

[SpyHawk]

Well, no D-14 but I know the D-12 fully replaced the D-9 in production before the end of the war, and I believe a limited number of D-13's saw combat as well.

Although aside from the addition of a Motorkanon (sp?) I have no idea what the difference from a D-9 is.

An extra 30mm is always nice to have though  

[This message has been edited by SpyHawk (edited 07-07-2000).]

[juzz]

 

The Fw 190D-10 was an experimental version of the D-9 with an engine-mounted MK 108 cannon and two MG 151 cannon in the wing roots. Only two of these were built.

The Fw 190D-11 was powered by the Jumo 213F with MW 50 boost. The fuselage-mounted guns were eliminated, and there were two MG 151s in the wing roots and two MK 108s in the outer wings. Only seven prototypes were built.

The Fw 190D-12 was a fighter-bomber variant, which differed from the D-9 by having a three-stage supercharged Jumo 213F-1 engine rated at 2060 hp for takeoff mounted in a new, more extensively armored cowling. Armanent was one engine-mounted 30-mm MK 108 cannon and two 20-mm MG 151s in the wing roots. Although primarily a ground-attack plane, the D-12 also made an effective fighter and could attain 453 mph at 37,000 feet when MW 50 boost was used. Production began in March 1945 at the Arado and Fieseler plants, but only a few were delivered.

The D-13 differed from the D-12 by having a Jumo 213EB engine and by having a 20-mm engine-mounted MG 151 cannon in place of the 30-mm MK 108 unit. However, only a couple of prototypes were built.

In the late autumn of 1944, the Technische Amt decided to switch to the Daimler-Benz DB 603 engine for future Fw-190D production. A couple of production Fw 190D-9s were re-engined with the DB 603AE, and during tests one of them clocked 435 mph at 32,800 feet. Plans were made to produce the fighter in series with the DB603E or DB 603LA as the Fw 190D-14 and with the DB 603EB or DB 603G as the Fw 190D-15, but the war ended before these plans could be brought to fruition.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by juzz:
So: How many Fw 190D-9 had MW 50?

Houston calling Funked....
Houston calling Funked...Funked you you copy?
 


Now I am talking by memory, I remember reading somewhere that something less than 50% production run of D9s came out from the factories with MW50 included, and a great number of the non-fitted planes were retrofitted with it on the field.

So most D9 had Mw50 fitted. Dont ask me number as I dont know  

So...back to the work  

Houston calling Funked...
Houston calling Funked...Funked you you copy?



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-07-2000).]

[funked]

About D-12 and D-13:

Heinz Nowarra, who has got to be the leading Fw 190 scholar, says it is doubtful that series production of the D-12 ever began.  The only planes that are known about for certain are three prototypes converted from A-8:  V63 (Werknummer 350165), V64 (350166), and V65 (350167).  

There were to be several prototypes of the D-13, but as Nowarra says, "this version and the D-13/R5 and R21 planned versions never got past the drawing board."  Airframes V62 (732053) and V71 (732054) were designated for conversion but apparently not completed and test-flown.

[funked]

RAM:  The best information I have is that the MW 50 system was not installed at the factory at all.  Some time after production started the MW 50 kits were ready and were retrofitted to many aircraft.  I have no idea how many planes this was.  BTW speed at sea level with MW 50 was 380 mph.  

(These speeds are from RLM documents, ask Vermillion if you want to see a copy)

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-07-2000).]