Author Topic: Player launched ships  (Read 2686 times)

Offline BaldEagl

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Player launched ships
« on: June 23, 2009, 01:19:58 AM »
I know this has been discussed before but the more I think about it the more I like it.  There should be player launched and controlled ships in the game.  I'm thinking that destroyer escorts, destroyers and possibly even light cruisers and escort carriers should be implemented.

Here's how I see them working;  A new scoring and perk category is developed for naval warfare with base scoring provided by the free PT boat.  The ships either cost perks or have ENY values based on displacement and guns.  They are single manned by the player who launches them and the player has the ability to jump guns just as they would in a GV or bomber.  Appropriate guns (AA or heavy guns) all converge like bomber guns do now.  Spawn points would be either at a port or special ship spawns in the middle of ocean areas.  If escort carriers were implemented then I think that the number of allowable aircraft from any single CVL should be limited to maybe the commander player and one or two others.

I think that it would be cool for players to form ad-hoc fleets or to rendevous with existing fleets to provide support.  Maybe there's a downside I haven't thought of but IMO I just see it being the basis of more fights and a fun new way to play the game.

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Offline StokesAk

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2009, 02:00:09 AM »
I like this idea it would add another dimention to the game. +1
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Offline usvi

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2009, 04:36:16 AM »
 :huh
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Offline stephen

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2009, 05:55:21 AM »
Swell idea. Hey I LIKE say swell....
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Offline RipChord929

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2009, 07:18:11 AM »
Fubuki class destroyer!   Hell yes  :aok
6x5inch Dual purpose main guns..
Lots of AA guns, and reloadable longlance 24inch Torps...

Spawn like a PTboat... Helm control, Main gun and AAgun
director positions (all guns slaved to master gun)..

That would work well for LVT escort, close to shore...
Shelling town, killing GVs, Providing AAcover and smoke screens!

Fubuki would be a great foil to the Fletchers we have in
the CV groups.. Besides they look sexy too!

Tone, or Chikuma, would work as well... 8x8inch, and a flight deck to boot!!!

Sorry, don't mean to harp.. But the IJN had some of the coolest ships...

(Ah finally got copy paste to work... First photo on this BB.. COOOL, lol!)

RC
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 07:55:43 AM by RipChord929 »
"Well Cmdr Eddington, looks like we have ourselves a war..."
"Yeah, a gut bustin, mother lovin, NAVY war!!!"

Offline stran

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2009, 08:37:21 AM »
the downside is that ships only travel at 35mph. enjoy your voyage :salute
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Offline MachFly

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2009, 08:47:23 AM »
 :aok
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Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline Rino

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2009, 08:48:53 AM »
     Lose the VT proximity fuzed shells and it's not a bad idea.  Otherwise it's
yet another request for easy mode from a lazy gamer.
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Offline AKP

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2009, 08:56:35 AM »
I like the idea!  But let's think about it for a minute....

Pros:

 - Gives us another way to kill each other!  :rock
 - Adds a strategic and tactical aspect currently not available to us.  Ships would then be able to pop up to harass the enemy in more unexpected places.
 - Would be able to enhance the main task forces with more ships
 - Would allow ships to maneuver more realistically and independently.
 - Did I mention it would give us another way to kill each other? :rock

Cons:

 - I dont think CVE's should be "player spawnable".  The main reason is, I can see a team forming a task force of 20 of them and rolling over just about any oceanside base.  Unless there is a limit as to how many could be on the map at once, but then that opens up a whole new can of worms.  The "moving bases" we have as CV's now should remain the main focus of the naval task force.
 - Size of the ships available should be limited.  While there is currently no limit to the number of planes that a team (nation) can produce in the game, it isnt all that realistic to allow any number of BB's or CA's rolling out of the shipyards.  They are very cost prohibitive, and a valued strategic asset.  So... IMO, player spawned ships should be limited to DD's, DE's, Frigates, and Corvettes.  These ships were often sent out alone, or in small groups to perform a specific mission, or go out on patrol, or to protect the coastline from attack.
 - In order to do this, I would think that the ENTIRE naval system would need to be redone.  Task groups would need to be broken down into different types (Carrier, Amphibious, Battle) and each type would need new and more role specific ships and abilities (troopships etc). 
 - TIME... It would take forever to get anywhere in game terms.  Since this is a "real time" combat sim, there is no way to use time compression to speed the ships to their destination, cutting out hours of boredom (which in real life would have been spent doing PMS, playing cards, and peeling potatoes).  Yes, you could have new spawn points added which would cut this time down... but if you think heavy bomber missions can be long now.... just try covering 1/2 that distance in a ship.  Not many would sit around and do nothing while there are fights going on all over the map... just so in 45 minutes their ship can get to where they want it, fight for 10 minutes (maybe) and be sunk...  Only to have to respawn and do it all over again.


So... as much as I like the idea... I think the better solution is to have more varied and different types of "fixed" task groups.  If it happens at all... give the improved TG's evasive maneuvering options.  Give them the ability to vary their formation.  Give them the ability to change speed.  Give ships the capacity to take more specific damage.  Bring in troop ships, merchants, escorts, CVE's (in their own fixed and number task groups).  Add DD squadrons... which operate independently of the main TG's.

Now... to integrate your idea into this, each ship in ANY type of task group could be independently controlled by a player in the manner you are suggesting.  But... instead of using overall rank to determine who can "bump" someone out of the skippers seat, or hold onto it...  make a new scoring category, as you suggested, which would be used to determine that.  Afterall, someone who has an awesome rank as a pilot or tank driver, doesn't necessarily have the skills to effectively command a ship at sea... without someone who can measurably do it better saying "Get the hell out of my chair!"

A ship that is being controlled by a player can move as it wishes.  Change speed, course, and can have a second player "join" it just like bombers do now.  It should also be able to be "run aground" just like a PT boat can... but farther away from the shore... not right on the beach.  Once the player gives command of the ship back to the AI, it makes the shortest course back to join formation with its task group.  Or... if it is too far out of range, it would sink... just like bomber drones do of they get too far away.  So in order to "land kills" in a ship, you would need to be within radar range of the capitol ship in the task group it started in.  The type of capitol ship for the task group would depend on its type.  CV's for a carrier task group, Troopship for an amphib task group, BB or CA for a Battle Group, etc.

Oh... and once a ship in a task group is sunk... ITS SUNK!  You dont get it back until the ENTIRE TG resets.  This will make ships much more valuable to the entire team.  Even if you perk the ships, they have no TEAM value if you can just spend your own points and "reup" in one.  But... if you get a ship sunk by doing something foolish, and you dont know when you will ever get it back... now you have the wrath of your teammates to deal with.

This would eliminate the need for new spawn points, long voyages, and ships being scattered all over the map with no overall strategic purpose.  Let the AI control the TG (with occasional course adjustments as they are now) until its time to get into the fight.  Then... skippers can jump into their ships, and "Fire when ready Gridley!"

So... as I said... I love the idea of controllable ships.  I just think they need to be worked into a framework that is closer to what we have now.  After all, the main focus of the game is AIRCRAFT.  Tanks, ships, and troops have been added, but they are to interact with the aircraft in combat.  GV's function the same as aircraft do in the game, but look at how many are available compared to planes.

Great idea BaldEagl.  But let's make the wheel we already have better... no need to reinvent it.

 

 (EDIT) My ideas evolved as I was writing this... incorporating more of BaldEagl's idea into a workable solution... at least, a workable solution as I see it.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 09:06:01 AM by AKP »

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Offline RipChord929

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2009, 09:39:11 AM »
I think some ppl are afraid to upset the standard game Equation...

But that standard equation is becoming a bit of a drag for me...

Too predictable, same'o same'o... Every time, LOL!!!

Time is long past, for a new evolution of gameplay...

This would be one of several ways to get it!!! Without changing TOO MUCH!!!

As soon as the first tank, killed another tank, that "Air Combat Simulation" was
OUT THE DOOR.... LOL!!!  That horse is LONG GONE, Too late to get it back now!!!

RC
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 09:53:57 AM by RipChord929 »
"Well Cmdr Eddington, looks like we have ourselves a war..."
"Yeah, a gut bustin, mother lovin, NAVY war!!!"

Offline waystin2

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2009, 09:43:15 AM »
+1 To more cool toys in AH!  ME LIKEY! :D
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Offline Captfish

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2009, 09:47:50 AM »
awesome idea :rock
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Offline AKP

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2009, 09:55:21 AM »
I think some ppl are afraid to upset the standard game Equation...

But that standard equation is becoming a bit of a drag for me...

Too predictable, same'o same'o... Every time, LOL!!!

Time is long past, for a new evolution of gameplay...

This would be one of several ways to get it!!! Without changing TOO MUCH!!!

RC

Hey... if it can be worked into the game without upsetting the balance of gameplay... and keeping it realistic, I think that's fine.  I just started playing AH2 a few months ago, and just started reading and posting here even more recently... so none of it is "same'o same'o" to me yet :)  Im still learning the skills I need for this one.  Just trying to think of a way that the idea can be brought into the game easily, relatively quickly, and without HTC needing to hire a whole team to work on it.  Not afraid to upset anything... its a video game  :D

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Offline Kazaa

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2009, 10:30:54 AM »
Great idea, +1.



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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Player launched ships
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2009, 10:33:31 AM »
The fastest easiest way to at least introduce this would be to work with our existing DD's.  There would be nothing that needed to be modeled and they would just need to be coded.  I'm guessing the current PT boat code could be modified slightly to make this work with minimal effort.  The scoring and stat code is already written too and would just need to be modified for this enhancement.  At least that would be a start and the idea could be expanded upon over time.

AKP I like a lot of your ideas.  I hadn't fully flushed this out and maybe there's a middle ground or combination of ideas that will produce the best results.

I thought about the CVE's and the ability to create a massive fleet so that's why I thought of limiting them to 1-2, maybe 3 fighters each.  That way only the most massive squads or biggest missions would be able to create a steamroller but I also left the option to keep them out of the mix for that very reason.  Also, with half the fight deck it would be unlikely that anyone could up off of one with a seriously heavy ord loadout.

Regardless, I still don't see a huge downside and if it just started with the easiest implementation then at least we get the ball rolling.

C'mon HT, you've brought us the air game and he ground game.  Bring the last element into play in a way that matches what you've already done in the other areas.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 10:35:50 AM by BaldEagl »
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.