Author Topic: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules  (Read 2158 times)

Offline humble

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2009, 11:51:54 AM »
This thread needs a rename at least....but I won't throw fuel.

The B25C glass nose has a .50 cal mounted on the starboard side of the nose and a gunsight for it at the Pilot's (LH) seat. Anybody flying a single engine fighter into a position where this gun takes them down deserves the result.

There is no point to extending this thread further except for one more post at the bottom containing an apology from the original poster. 



I think the person who owes an apology is you, as the logs confirmed we faced at least a few of the "strafer" C's and more then one was actually trying to "dogfight" over A35....

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Offline oakranger

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2009, 02:45:37 PM »
Yep pretty much a normal post for you.  :rolleyes:

Yea, what can you do.

By the way, you guy put up a great fight last night at the end.  We didn't see much action and really wasn't expecting to find one at the end of the frame.  Nothing ends a fight better than both of use land without being shot down. 
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Offline Shifty

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2009, 02:56:31 PM »
One of your guys in a Hurri II knocked half the right wing off my Emil late in the fight. I was able to get to A87 couldnt keep it on the runway though and got a ditch.

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Offline Plazus

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2009, 04:09:14 PM »
Sounds like we need killshooter back on...
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Offline ghostdancer

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2009, 05:42:32 PM »
Um, no. The issue here is that some B-25C pilots upped with a gun package instead of the glass nose like they were supposed to. It is not an issue people on the same side shooting each other.

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Offline John Curnutte

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2009, 12:45:41 AM »
 I can attest to the fact of drones having solid noses in the B-25 , This happened to me in a snapshot I believe and I commented on it . But not sure about the gun package . but it remains for all of us to up the given A/C assigned with gun packages allowed for sure .
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Offline Bannor

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2009, 03:58:51 AM »
Now I don't know who flew what or that if the B25 drones look different than the plane controled by the the pilot, but it seems to me that the only plane I have a choice to fly is the one that is enabled by the FSO team in the hanger, so there shouldn't be any other type of B25 available to anybody, or for that matter any other type of aircraft/gv that is not on the list. Just an observation, not trying to stir the pot. :salute
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Offline Stoney

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2009, 07:08:20 AM »
Now I don't know who flew what or that if the B25 drones look different than the plane controled by the the pilot, but it seems to me that the only plane I have a choice to fly is the one that is enabled by the FSO team in the hanger, so there shouldn't be any other type of B25 available to anybody, or for that matter any other type of aircraft/gv that is not on the list. Just an observation, not trying to stir the pot. :salute

The problem is that there is no setting for the CM's to disable specific ordnance loads.  There is, however, the ability for us to see what people were carrying when they took off.  So, we can only police this after the fact.  Its unfortunate, but the alternative is to allow non-historic ordnance variations into the setup.  Sometimes we choose not to regulate ordnance, other times we do. 
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2009, 08:08:23 AM »
Sounds like we need killshooter back on...

You don't want that, even in the Main Arenas.   Trust me. 
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2009, 08:11:10 AM »
I think the person who owes an apology is you, as the logs confirmed we faced at least a few of the "strafer" C's and more then one was actually trying to "dogfight" over A35....

Dantoo's correct though.   Sorry.  9 GIAP has taken myself and a couple squaddies aboard and the result is from my eyes, a success.   Good aughs, but Dantoo is as sharp as they come.   Communication is excellent.

But the bottom line here, is that some upped with the wrong armament.   We had the correct armament.    :rock
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Offline humble

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2009, 08:40:44 AM »
Dantoo's correct though.   Sorry.  9 GIAP has taken myself and a couple squaddies aboard and the result is from my eyes, a success.   Good aughs, but Dantoo is as sharp as they come.   Communication is excellent.

But the bottom line here, is that some upped with the wrong armament.   We had the correct armament.    :rock

Dantoo wasn't "correct", he was flat out wrong. And his conception of what constitutes good flying in a particular situation isn't relevant either....especially when thats wrong as well. I'm certainly going to favor FQ crossing shots vs rear hemisphere ones when engaging a "glass nose" B-25. Krusty didn't do anything "wrong" BTW, we had made a pass thru the buff stream and I had been engaged by a hurricane, Krusty swung in behind to clear and then we both went to re-engage the bomber stream again. The buffs were low and strung out with significant hurricane 2C escort, no way your going to not expose yourself to some measure of risk. I was looking at the buffs but viewing the log Krusty had 4 kills and I think I had assists on all (out of 9 total assists :O :furious :confused:) 4 so we were in tandem the entire attack me thinks. Given the reality of "up the tail" runs on a buff formation, 20mm from an escort or a quick dash "in front" of a formation otw to another he made a reasonable choice...unless of course you have a B-25 with a strafer package. I have no idea if in fact he got golden BB'd or strafed but I do know that I to came under fire from more then one solid nose during those same attacks. Regardless of your opinion on Krusty's BBS offerings he's a very good FSO pilot and the logs prove it time and time again. He got 4 kills before this happened, now without confirmation on the "victor"'s loadout the reality of fortunes of war can't be ignored either....but either way Dantoo's comment was ignorant.

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Offline Dantoo

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2009, 10:52:08 AM »
Snap I don't want to get into a purse fight with you.
 
What raises my hackles is when people come straight in here and start throwing about accusations of "cheating" in public.  The whole purpose of that approach is just to start a ruckus.  It just has to.  It gets up my nose, and we all know that it is not the right way to deal with a situation like this. It brings FSO down in a spiral every time.  Far far better to have it PM'd to the CMs and/or the CO of the squad that you have identified a problem with.  That's the point I was making about renaming the thread and apologising to the community over.  The pain that this type of post causes is avoidable. 

"I also lost my tail feathers because one of these rule-breakers popped me 600 in front of them as I passed by."

The above statement is in the original post.  It doesn't give any detail as to speed, angle off centre or really anything other than being 600 in front of a plane type that is always armed up front with .50 cals.  My comment (which I agree wasn't really needed in retrospect) was meant to imply that if you place yourself in front of any B25 at D600 you are going to be shot at.  If for some reason you think that a B25 driver shouldn't pull the trigger if you put yourself there, then I don't understand it.  They put the gun in there for some reason surely? You of all people, should expect to see a medium bomber try and dogfight rather than just lie there and take it.  You do it all the time and you do it well.  All battles are unique and the one you were in may have offered better survival chances from the FQ.  What can't be said is that it is a "safe" way to attack a B25C simply because it is armed and eventually somebody is going to get hits on you.

You and I both admit we don't know how Krusty got killed other than what he posted here and what comes from the logs.  Some guy in a Hurri got an assist on him so he obviously had damage before the B25 finished him. If the 25 guy did the wrong thing then that has to be fixed.  We both know that too, but it isn't going to be fixed out here in the piercing glare of the BBS world.  PMs will be sent, views exchanged and advice given.  The problem, if established, hopefully won't occur again.

Now let me clearly and without reservation apologise for causing upset to you and any others with my post.
My mistake is that I did exactly what I accused the OP of; I saw something going on that I didn't approve of, thought it should be fixed, and then rushed to post about it in public instead of using the quieter and more effective channels.

rgds



I get really really tired of selective realism disguised as a desire to make bombers easier to kill.

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Offline Delirium

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2009, 12:58:14 PM »
deleted, not my business

« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 03:00:10 PM by Delirium »
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Offline Bannor

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2009, 01:41:19 PM »
Thanx Stoney! :salute
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Offline Valkyrie

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Re: Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2009, 11:57:37 PM »
Stop putting up these ridiculous rules. CM's know what the plane set is so allow the use of everything available on that plane. These complex rule sets get worse and worse with max altitudes, gun limits, etc. For those who don't have time to consult 20 pages of orders after coming home from work on Friday to fly, please simplify the rules. This he said, she said, show me the film because they broke a rule that needed to be broken is getting to be rather tiring. I really would like to fly these with having to go to law school. My nights are busy enough. Better yet get some decent match ups with aircraft that don’t suck please!

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