Zone system.

[batch]

yes I knew what you meant..... I worded mine incorrectly.... I should have said decreased.......

doesnt change my train of thought though............ it doesnt matter how fast the base ords come back up if when they do come up you cant have 1000lbs due to the ammo factory being destroyed....... this handicaps the team being streamrolled in a major fashion......... and as I recall from the old system....... it was a never ending effect once a country had made your strats within reach

you were heavily outnumbered to begin with.... and it was not possible to ever defend a strat while trying to defend bases at the same time

so you have your choice either having no ords/radar/fuel etc   ....... or having no bases to use them from

[moot]

So scale the invader country's rebuild speed correspondingly low.  Make some of the rear fields higher in altitude..  And/or make those rear fields and strat's defense stronger, and the strats larger too.   Well, not that last one maybe.  Larger strats would make it less feasible for the small country to knock it down from its inferior position.

[Jayhawk]

I do have a concern with all the strats towards the back.  As someone who would actually be willing to fly the hour there at 30k or something, I would hate to get there only to have a single 163 up and tear me apart.  I guess that would mean bring escorts. 

On the other hand I can understand that in the real world the use of 163s and even 262s would have be limited and used in situations like that, so it makes sense.  I guess I would just hope that the strats are not clustered right around the uncapturable bases so if someone did choose to up a 163 they would actually be taking a risk in doing so.

[zoozoo]

 

[beau32]

+1 Go for it!

[batch]

Unfortunately IMO the best solution contradicts Hitechs opinion that it should be less complex...... IMO the less complex the less necessary as the ONLY results could be a severe handicap of a country given the mindset of the majority of AH players.......

I havent exactly sat down and thought through all the details of what would make a perfect system, but just on a quick pass it would go something like this:

Keeping the current map arrangement of zones and strat layouts (this gives the benefit of not affecting those not interested in "winning" the war but simply want to play the game to have fun [about half the people])

Make city strats worthless (this reduces the complexity and actually makes more sense in creating a reason for having strats with penalty)

make city > strat train runs @ 6 mins and each train is worth 10% of rebuild (making total rebuild of a strat @ 1 hour)

make strat > base convoy runs @ 10 mins and each convoy is worth 10% of rebuild (making total rebuild of a base @ 1hour 40 mins)

make base supply runs to a base worth 5% requiring 20 trips or a combination of convoys and resupp runs whatever........ regardless of how many strats on a base are down (this gives the benefits of porking bases)

reduce strat>base resupply times by 2 minutes for every 20% of damage to the strat ....this means strat>base convoys would move @ 12 mins vs 10 if the strat was 80% or 20 mins vs 10 if the strat was 0% (this gives the benefits of porking strats)

[sparow]

Maybe rebuild times could be inversly proportional to the size of a country's territory?  This would make a steam rolling country more vulnerable, and wouldn't necessarily require more than one set of strats, as HT seems to prefer.

I believe Moot has hit the nail. This is one of the most important issues in a strategic system. Suply lines. In RL, this hampered all armies. German panzer units advanced so fast that they had to stop waiting for supplies (fuel and ammo). Russians had to wait weeks to prepare an assault. The germans had to lay thousands of miles of railroad tracks all over Russia. The rail gauge was different...

The longer are supply lines, the slower is ressuply. The shorter supply lines are, quicker the ressuply. Remember Stalingrad? The T34's left the factory unpainted and started firing less than a mile away. That's a quick ressuply line! Remember the Ardennes? Tigers abandoned after running out of fuel?

A steamroller wil occur everytime you manage to concentrate a massive force,well supplied, against a target weakened by strategical operations. Now, we have localized steamrollers, in sequence. You gather a enormous attack force, destroy everything, subdue defenders and drop troops. End of game, rinse and repeat. No penalty for grabbing land faster than you can build a railroad.

Gaining terrain? Ok, pay the price: longer supply lines, slower rebuilds.

Cheers

[Bino]

...
Gaining terrain? Ok, pay the price: longer supply lines, slower rebuilds.
...

+1   

[moot]

And spreading the fight over more of the terrain would help scatter the hordes/conga lines.  E.G. more frequent and valuable supply convoys, the bridge ideas that AKP suggested and others helped tailor, etc.

[K-KEN]

As a suggestion, multiple cities, say (2) 1 near the HQ and the other 2 sectors away or both set equidistant from the HQ - East or West, N or S.  (4) Fuel depots, each if destroyed represents 25% fuel shortage-kinda like we have in real life...</jab>, and model the dar, troops, and ammo factories the same. Say 4 or more each. Fuel and ammo dumps located near 3 bases each would be kinda cool too. It would make it more difficult to steamroll but could still make each country vulnerable.
Spit and bomber factories should also be implemented. (or even Jets or Jet Engines) Heck, ball bearing factories!!   The Country strat could work if more were added and the map was peppered with more than one of each. I am in favor of Country Strat as it was one more facet of the game that had to be considered. (and yes, gamed)

[rough_wood]

Overall I have felt the game does not have enough reward for attacking strategic targets. It takes away from the old real world tactics.

For example train yards and bridges would be an awesome addition.

I like the idea of having much stronger buildings for the factories. Make the strats much larger, with more trains, heavy ack.

I also think they should be capturable. There are ways to avoid the steamroller effect:

Require say 50 troops for the opposing country to capture, but only 10 troops for the original country to recapture. For the bad guys to capture, maybe they have to get guys in each of 5 maprooms while original guys only have to get 10 guys in any of the maprooms. This will make it more a tactical thing, since it isn't easy taking such targets intact etc.

Don't allow the enemy's ack to immediately work upon capture, but let the original teams ack work immediately.

Let original team have trains that resupply the factories to rebuild them, so it rebuilds faster for original owners than enemies.

Scatter a few uncapturable bases around the map, and surround each with factories which are fairly nearby. Having the factories too far behind lines makes it too much work to damage / capture them.

Give original owners GV spawns in the factories. Consider making uncapturable base VH indestructable.

Near HQ have an uncapturable factory of each type so they are never 0% rebuild.

If you don't make them capturable there will just be factories behind enemy lines getting annihilated. I think its important for them to be capturable just make it very difficult to do.

[Jayhawk]

Overall I have felt the game does not have enough reward for attacking strategic targets. It takes away from the old real world tactics.

For example train yards and bridges would be an awesome addition.

I like the idea of having much stronger buildings for the factories. Make the strats much larger, with more trains, heavy ack.

I also think they should be capturable. There are ways to avoid the steamroller effect:

Require say 50 troops for the opposing country to capture, but only 10 troops for the original country to recapture. For the bad guys to capture, maybe they have to get guys in each of 5 maprooms while original guys only have to get 10 guys in any of the maprooms. This will make it more a tactical thing, since it isn't easy taking such targets intact etc.

Don't allow the enemy's ack to immediately work upon capture, but let the original teams ack work immediately.

Let original team have trains that resupply the factories to rebuild them, so it rebuilds faster for original owners than enemies.

Scatter a few uncapturable bases around the map, and surround each with factories which are fairly nearby. Having the factories too far behind lines makes it too much work to damage / capture them.

Give original owners GV spawns in the factories. Consider making uncapturable base VH indestructable.

Near HQ have an uncapturable factory of each type so they are never 0% rebuild.

If you don't make them capturable there will just be factories behind enemy lines getting annihilated. I think its important for them to be capturable just make it very difficult to do.

Rough, HiTech has already addressed much of what you said, ie:

Gents, capture-able strat in the sense you wish will not happen. If you think that capturing strat would then permanently make the other counties rebuilds 75% less or what ever, you have just set up a steam roll condition.

I.E. Each capture makes it harder and harder for a country to defend. While this is how the world works, it does not make for good game play.

HiTech

Also, this is important:

Hammer Wrote,
I agree, and hence why I am talking about the change. I want to get back to less complexity.

HiTech

What you suggested seemed highly complicated.

[MachFly]

sounds good 

[moot]

Jayhawk, most of RoughWood's suggestions are single items, not a complex system.  Some of them could be hand picked to make the right combination.

[Jayhawk]

Jayhawk, most of RoughWood's suggestions are single items, not a complex system.  Some of them could be hand picked to make the right combination.

Fair enough