Need Advice For Upgrade

[Sloehand]

So here's the story.  Have a Monarch Hornet (SFF) machine with the following:

ASUS P4/P800-VM AGP Mobo
P4 3.0GHz CPU
2.0Gb RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GS 256Mb AGP video card
SB X-Fi Elite sound card
WD Raptor 36Gb HD's (2x)
BenQ FP241W flat monitor (1920 x 1200 native)
QWest DSL 7.0Mbps conection

I've had progressively worse performance (go figure) over the last year or so in terms of small screen delays or stutters.  Just before the last major AH Terrain upgrade I had added the 2nd Gb of RAM and brought my DSL connenction up to 7.0 Mbps, but there was not much apparent improvement, if any.  With the Terrain upgrade it's now nearly impossible to play if I get more than 10-15 people near me, air or ground. 

And thats after reading all of the AH performance material and setting all possible graphics, terrain, card settings to off or as low as possible.  In spite of that, I can just sit alone on the runway and spin around all 8 views from the cockpit and get at least one or two stutters.
 
As my 7800 GS is about the top of the AGP video line, any improvement in video means I've got to do a major upgrade to a PCI-Express motherboard.

As we all know, funds are very tight right now, but it's getting almost pointless to spend even $15 for what I'm able to do, so I'm looking for a good and affordable upgrade path.  My big question is, where do I really need the improvement: video card, CPU or RAM.  I suspect video, of course, but I've got to get a motherboard no matter what.  If my current P4 CPU is not (or will not soon be) a bottleneck, then I won't upgrade the CPU now, but that will drive my choice of Mobo.  Similar thoughts on RAM, etc.

If I spend what little money I have, I got to be sure I'll get something so I can actually play the game for awhile to come.  I'll probably even ask Skuzzy to bless my eventual choices.  As it is, it's going to be a financial magic act to buy a mobo and video card right now, so I've got to be careful and get it right the first time. 

So suggestions overall and specifically on a video card are welcome.

[AirFlyer]

I think the ATI HD3850 512meg AGP was the best it ever got for AGP, not sure how that compares to the 7800 though. After that your looking at a nice overhaul to replace the mobo, etc.

[OOZ662]

Your system is almost identical to mine except that I have a 6800. I play with everything except the shadow settings just fine, so I'm suspecting that there's something chewing at your resources.

My DxDiag

EDIT: That's 512 textures at 1024x768 screen resolution, by the way.

[eagl]

I wouldn't spend another dime upgrading that system.

You might consider shopping around for a cheap barebones system and then put the money into a good video card, but you'll still end up paying extra for an upgraded power supply to match most decent vid cards nowadays.

If I was you, I'd drop the resolution or eye candy down to keep framerates playable and start putting aside money for a complete system refresh.  To get something that will work for you for a few years, you'll probably end up spending at least $1000 even if you go with a core 2 duo / DDR2 system.

And buy standard components, or buy from a system builder that uses standard components.  That way you don't get locked into any particular brand or type of component.  I've used only 2 PC cases in the last 10 years, and although my current case cost me $160, I see no reason to need to replace it for another several years.  Standard components can be an investment if you think smart.  That doesn't mean buy a super expensive case, but you ought to get a big enough one with plenty of cooling and room for stuff like an oversize PSU or extra 5.25" bays, in case you want an upgrade later on that requires more room.

You might consider sending tildeath a PM to see what kind of budget gaming system he could put together for you...  Aside from fedex destroying his work a few times, he might be a reasonable option for you when you bite the bullet and upgrade your whole rig.

[guncrasher]

Sloehand, its a lot of fun to do your own build, but its also a lot of frustration, specially if you are like me with very little experience.  I have taken my computer apart so many times that now I can assemble and disassemble it with my eyes closed.  still need to buy some additional parts, but I'll get there by the end of the year.  whenever your ready find some components you think might work on new egg and post them here you'll get lots of suggestion about how to proceed or get one of td's.  not sure if you can reuse some of your existing components, but it dont hurt to ask.

semp

[OOZ662]

not sure if you can reuse some of your existing components, but it dont hurt to ask.

He could salvage the optical drives, possibly the floppy drive (if it has one), the sound card, the hard drives, and the case (if it's not proprietary).

[cattb]

build your own, I did it. I did have experience with fixing my own PC  over the years,
other than fixing I never had experience building one, its not that hard. ( i thought it was fun      actually)
I have to agree with what is said, time to use your PC as a back up or dismantle for parts.
If you do decide to build your own, ask yourself the first question, What do I use my PC for?
Are you making videos, autocad, or heavy graphic application software? The first question will help you in a design that will fit your needs. Also if you do build one, I think it was mentioned plan ahead and build one that will be upgradeable over  5 years, seems somewhere I read 5 years is average lifecycle for a person owning a PC, I could be very wrong to.
Cattb/TimO

[Hap]

Your system is almost identical to mine except that I have a 6800. I play with everything except the shadow settings just fine, so I'm suspecting that there's something chewing at your resources.

My DxDiag

EDIT: That's 512 textures at 1024x768 screen resolution, by the way.

Mine's not too different either.  Works fine.  Can't get all the candy, but oh well.  If money be tight, hold on to it.

[Getback]

I wouldn't spend another dime upgrading that system.

You might consider shopping around for a cheap barebones system and then put the money into a good video card, but you'll still end up paying extra for an upgraded power supply to match most decent vid cards nowadays.

If I was you, I'd drop the resolution or eye candy down to keep framerates playable and start putting aside money for a complete system refresh.  To get something that will work for you for a few years, you'll probably end up spending at least $1000 even if you go with a core 2 duo / DDR2 system.

And buy standard components, or buy from a system builder that uses standard components.  That way you don't get locked into any particular brand or type of component.  I've used only 2 PC cases in the last 10 years, and although my current case cost me $160, I see no reason to need to replace it for another several years.  Standard components can be an investment if you think smart.  That doesn't mean buy a super expensive case, but you ought to get a big enough one with plenty of cooling and room for stuff like an oversize PSU or extra 5.25" bays, in case you want an upgrade later on that requires more room.

You might consider sending tildeath a PM to see what kind of budget gaming system he could put together for you...  Aside from fedex destroying his work a few times, he might be a reasonable option for you when you bite the bullet and upgrade your whole rig.

Ditto!

[Ghastly]

The P4 is a bottleneck now - and the video card is at the lower end too. Make absolutely sure that you aren't running anything you don't need to while playing the game.  (There's a tool by iobits called "Game booster" that works wonderfully for shutting everything you don't need down before you start the game).

Also, make sure that there isn't a fan that's going bad on either the GPU or as often as not on the motherboard chipset - I can't count how many times I've seen "increasingly poor performance" on a system and opened the case to find that one or the other is moving only grudgingly.

At time's too, Windows will just sort of meltdown, getting slower and slower for no really apparent reason. Some of the more recent patches seem to hit performance on low end systems, too. 

If it were my system, I'd install XP again (to the other drive this time) if you've got the room and see if that new installation performs better.  Even better, install XP to the other drive, and just the bare minimum of anything else you need to play the game - and then dual-boot - using that partition only for AH.  If you are behind a hardware firewall from the Internet, don't have a wireless access point on your network, and are not at risk from other systems on your network, I'd even shutdown automatic updates on that partition and run with just the original installation and not update it.   Caveat - you have to have an idea what you are doing and be pretty careful not to ever get "lazy" and use it for browsing, etc. to not end up at risk, however.

Othewise, I believe the guys who answered before are spot on.   Plan on a mobo, cpu and video card at a minimum.  Or given the relatively minimal cost of a case, DVD, floppy, memory, sound card and a harddrive, keep this one intact, build a second machine and use this one for something else.

ALL IMHO of course.

<S>

[Kermit de frog]

Ditto!

"Ditto?!?"</Hedley Lamarr voice>

How's this for a plan?
Phase 1:  Buy new mobo >$100.  And new PCIe video card as well for >$200.
Phase 2:  Buy DDR2 memory for >$50.
Phase 3:  Buy a new CPU and mobo for >$300

In the end, you'll have a Core 2 Duo, DDR2 memory, PCIe video card and a new mobo.  Total cost >$650 that's built in 3 stages.
Actual price will vary depending on what you want to end up with.  Power supply upgrade not included.

If this process is acceptable, I'll provide more details.  Throughout each phase, you'll continue to have a working PC that gets better and better as you add parts.

[morfiend]

"Ditto?!?"</Hedley Lamarr voice>

How's this for a plan?
Phase 1:  Buy new mobo >$100.  And new PCIe video card as well for >$200.
Phase 2:  Buy DDR2 memory for >$50.
Phase 3:  Buy a new CPU and mobo for >$300

In the end, you'll have a Core 2 Duo, DDR2 memory, PCIe video card and a new mobo.  Total cost >$650 that's built in 3 stages.
Actual price will vary depending on what you want to end up with.  Power supply upgrade not included.

If this process is acceptable, I'll provide more details.  Throughout each phase, you'll continue to have a working PC that gets better and better as you add parts.

 Agreed,those raptor drives are pretty fast so you'll want them!  AlsoI'd add to Kermit's suggestion that first you get a good PSU,you didnt list yours,but if you check the requirements of most hi end vid cards your present psu may leave you unable to pop in a desent vidcard.

   

[cattb]

the 260 series is getting towards 150 with rebate, couple of the not so good guarantee are less.
theres a savings of 50.00.

[Sloehand]

I wouldn't spend another dime upgrading that system.

You might consider shopping around for a cheap barebones system and then put the money into a good video card, but you'll still end up paying extra for an upgraded power supply to match most decent vid cards nowadays.

If I was you, I'd drop the resolution or eye candy down to keep framerates playable and start putting aside money for a complete system refresh.  To get something that will work for you for a few years, you'll probably end up spending at least $1000 even if you go with a core 2 duo / DDR2 system.

And buy standard components, or buy from a system builder that uses standard components.  That way you don't get locked into any particular brand or type of component.  I've used only 2 PC cases in the last 10 years, and although my current case cost me $160, I see no reason to need to replace it for another several years.  Standard components can be an investment if you think smart.  That doesn't mean buy a super expensive case, but you ought to get a big enough one with plenty of cooling and room for stuff like an oversize PSU or extra 5.25" bays, in case you want an upgrade later on that requires more room.

You might consider sending tildeath a PM to see what kind of budget gaming system he could put together for you...  Aside from fedex destroying his work a few times, he might be a reasonable option for you when you bite the bullet and upgrade your whole rig.

Appreciate the response, but you didn't read (or understand) my constraints, primarily financial.  I need something to get me through the next year or so, period.  As cheaply as possible.  I already have a case, HD's, sound card, etc.  My problem is either something internal as OOZ has suggested OR, a need to upgrade to a PCI-Express Mobo, and/or a more powerful CPU and/or video card, and/or more RAM.  If I can avoid doing only two of those upgrades, that would be financially easier to swing right now.

But a whole new machine is out of the question.

[Sloehand]

Geez, people I appreciate taking the time to respond, but NOT ONE OF YOU made a suggestion on WHAT to buy to improve my system. 

I don't think any of you really read what I wrote.  I don't need HD's, I got them.  Don't need a case.  Got one!  Don't need a sound card, got the very best.  I don't think I need more RAM, but if someone can make a case that it's my primary bottleneck, fine.

What I needed to know is...  since I have to upgrade the Mobo because I am at the end of the AGP line in video card improvement, I need to go to PCI-Express to get access to better cards than what I have.  The main question is can I get by with my P4 3.0 CPU on a good PCI-E mobo and a much better video card?  And will my current 2 Gb of DDR2 RAM (assuming compatitility) be enough.

As a business machine, my current one is just fine and will be used forever as such for quite awhile, but I do need to do something to get proper performance for the game.  I don't want to have to spend $220 on a mobo if there is one just as good for $140, or $550 for a graphics card if a $250 one will do the trick, and I certainly don't want to buy a new CPU as I seem to have a lot of cycles when I run AH with the current one, unless someone can again make a case that it's needed.  That means I can buy a cheaper LGA 775 socket board instead of a LGA 1156 or 1336.

I know all (more or less) about building custom systems and compatibility of components, etc.  I'm just not up on the latest components THAT WILL RUN ACES HIGH WELL.  So, suggestions on good and proven (to play AH well) mobo's, video cards and CPU's that are not too expensive are what I need.  I'm hoping to spend significantly less than $1000, like maybe $500-600, but I've got to be sure what I buy will give me a quality gaming platform.  I can't afford to buy more than I need for the next year or so.