Author Topic: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)  (Read 1785 times)

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2009, 08:40:52 AM »
Nevermind the fact that the real HurriIIC was so bloated with its armament that it required fighter escort... ;)
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Offline Steve

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2009, 11:59:55 AM »
F4U Vs 51D.  I have actually experimented with this against some of the best F4U pilots in the game.  All fights took place below 5k.
I have  fought mtnman where I decided to get on top of his hog, which is the correct move for a 51 to make. (Bait the hog with a bad merge or with a ton of level speed he didn't see you build,  and hope he pulls hard into the vert behind you.... then kill him at your leisure).

Although it took  me several passes/feigned passes to drive him into the deck, I eventually forced Mtnman onto the deck and he had little to no E to work with. I killed him.  Same thing with Saber.

Conversely, I have fought Mtnman where I pressed the dogfight(as opposed to  a vertical E fight), disengaging several times to separate a K or so to reverse and re-engage. With my very best efforts, I was unable to kill him. Maybe a better driver could have gotten him but I couldn't. This went on for several minutes, with several merges. I may have pinged him a time or two but I don't remember. This ended , 800 yard (bad)PW for me.. a trip to the tower.

It was clear to me that the Hog/Mtnman combo was the much superior knife fighter to my Steve/51 combo. Again, maybe a better pony driver could have gotten him but I couldn't.


 :salute
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Offline Big Rat

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2009, 12:53:33 PM »

It was clear to me that the Hog/Mtnman combo was the much superior knife fighter to my Steve/51 combo. Again, maybe a better pony driver could have gotten him but I couldn't.


 :salute

Steve,

If you didn't get him in that situation I doubt any other pony would have.  Wrong fight for a pony once it gets close quarters, especially against a good hog stick.

 :salute
BigRat
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Offline humble

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2009, 02:05:24 PM »
I don't see how a pony can beat a hog in anything other then a strong E fight. On the flip side other then a "lucky" shot I don't see how a hog can prevail if the pony seizes and keeps the initiative. I've always admired the fine technique that Steve Skat and a few others bring to the table in handling the pony. I find it very difficult to fly that fine line consistently...in my mind kind of like Nascar or Indy drivers talking about the subtleties of a racing line. When I run into a pony in anything I'm looking for what I've labeled as a "stalking pony"...I think that this type of plane handling is very under appreciated. To me its a very very difficult fight to fly or defend against....

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Offline mtnman

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2009, 07:41:29 PM »
F4U Vs 51D.  I have actually experimented with this against some of the best F4U pilots in the game.  All fights took place below 5k.
I have  fought mtnman where I decided to get on top of his hog, which is the correct move for a 51 to make. (Bait the hog with a bad merge or with a ton of level speed he didn't see you build,  and hope he pulls hard into the vert behind you.... then kill him at your leisure).

Although it took  me several passes/feigned passes to drive him into the deck, I eventually forced Mtnman onto the deck and he had little to no E to work with. I killed him.  Same thing with Saber.

Conversely, I have fought Mtnman where I pressed the dogfight(as opposed to  a vertical E fight), disengaging several times to separate a K or so to reverse and re-engage. With my very best efforts, I was unable to kill him. Maybe a better driver could have gotten him but I couldn't. This went on for several minutes, with several merges. I may have pinged him a time or two but I don't remember. This ended , 800 yard (bad)PW for me.. a trip to the tower.

It was clear to me that the Hog/Mtnman combo was the much superior knife fighter to my Steve/51 combo. Again, maybe a better pony driver could have gotten him but I couldn't.


 :salute

Those were definitely some tough, fun fights Steve!  The key is applying the correct amount of pressure to drive me to the deck, 'cause then I'm basically done.  If you push too hard, I might land a hit on you as you go past me.  Don't push hard enough, and I won't go to the deck. 

When I'm being attacked by a faster/higher plane (not that that's how we fought) I actually monitor my speed, and attempt to get higher at every opportunity.  I use my speed as a reference.  My goal is to get back up to about 275mph after every pass.  If I can get to 300+, I use that "excess" speed to climb (at a very shallow angle). 

If you push "just right", I'll never be able to build that "excess", and may even have a tough time getting my 275 back.  I'll be forced down.  Extend too far and take too much time to come in for another pass, and I'll get my speed up and climb a bit.  The high guy will be in trouble soon...  Push too hard, and you'll be staying too close.  I'm going to be looking at shooting at you here and there, and try to pressure you into doing something bad for you/good for me.

I smile when I see the P51 extending less than 2K, or more than 4K.  I start to get nervous when he reverses around 2.5-3K and comes back.  If he does it a couple times and proves to me it wasn't accidental, I start to sweat.
MtnMan

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Offline Steve

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2009, 01:59:02 AM »
Those were definitely some tough, fun fights Steve!  The key is applying the correct amount of pressure to drive me to the deck, 'cause then I'm basically done.  If you push too hard, I might land a hit on you as you go past me.  Don't push hard enough, and I won't go to the deck.  

When I'm being attacked by a faster/higher plane (not that that's how we fought) I actually monitor my speed, and attempt to get higher at every opportunity.  I use my speed as a reference.  My goal is to get back up to about 275mph after every pass.  If I can get to 300+, I use that "excess" speed to climb (at a very shallow angle).  

If you push "just right", I'll never be able to build that "excess", and may even have a tough time getting my 275 back.  I'll be forced down.  Extend too far and take too much time to come in for another pass, and I'll get my speed up and climb a bit.  The high guy will be in trouble soon...  Push too hard, and you'll be staying too close.  I'm going to be looking at shooting at you here and there, and try to pressure you into doing something bad for you/good for me.

I smile when I see the P51 extending less than 2K, or more than 4K.  I start to get nervous when he reverses around 2.5-3K and comes back.  If he does it a couple times and proves to me it wasn't accidental, I start to sweat.

Yup. good stuff!   I always know if it's you I'm fighting after the first couple of moves. When attacked from 6 , you sort of change the angle from a dead 6 to cause more oblique approach.  I only guess but I assume you are doing this to increase closure rate... to disguise E, sneaky bastage. Plus this throws off people's timing when they try to pull lead if you break into them.  I have the answer for this but in a Co-E engagement where I don't have time to build E over you before some picker or other comes along, it's a stalemate.
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Offline mtnman

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2009, 09:49:59 AM »
to increase closure rate... to disguise E, sneaky bastage.

 :D
MtnMan

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Offline crutch

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2009, 05:37:22 PM »
the easist way to win is fly with and work with a wingman ;)

nothing in the air is 'fair', so start with a buddy.

to good pilots are generally better than 1 great pilot.

just sayin ;)
Crutch

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