« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: "Lift Loading"  (Read 3254 times)

Offline Stoney

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3482
"Lift Loading"
« on: December 10, 2009, 12:12:07 PM »
BnZ, I keep seeing you use this term?  Can you explain it please?
Logged
"Can we be incorrect at times, absolutely, but I do believe 15 years of experience does deserve a little more credence and respect than you have given from your very first post."

HiTech

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2009, 12:17:59 PM »
Quote from: Stoney on December 10, 2009, 12:12:07 PM
BnZ, I keep seeing you use this term?  Can you explain it please?

You know what wing-loading is?

Well, some wings obviously generate more lift per unit of area than others...

The aircraft with the lower power-off stall 1G stall speed is the one producing more lift in relation to its weight.

This is not *always* the aircraft with the lower basic wing-loading. Thus, "lift-loading".

If its not a proper term, sorry, but it gets the point across I think.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 12:23:25 PM by BnZs »
Logged
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Stoney

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3482
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2009, 12:22:27 PM »
Quote from: BnZs on December 10, 2009, 12:17:59 PM
You know what wing-loading is?

Well, some wings obviously generate more lift per unit of area than others...Thus "lift-loading"

If its not a proper term, sorry, but it gets the point across I think.

How do you compute it?  I'm curious, since I've seen you use it as a basis for comparing aircraft.
Logged
"Can we be incorrect at times, absolutely, but I do believe 15 years of experience does deserve a little more credence and respect than you have given from your very first post."

HiTech

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2009, 12:24:00 PM »
Check the edit. Lower 1G stall speed for a given configuration is the easiest way to compare.
Logged
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11618
      • Trainer's Website
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2009, 04:38:25 PM »
BnZs when you say "lift loading" do you mean coefficient of lift?
Logged

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2009, 05:09:09 PM »
Quote from: FLS on December 10, 2009, 04:38:25 PM
BnZs when you say "lift loading" do you mean coefficient of lift?

No. I mean the ratio of the total lift the entire wing can produce to the weight of the aircraft.
Logged
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Badboy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1217
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2009, 05:25:33 PM »
Quote from: BnZs on December 10, 2009, 12:17:59 PM
If its not a proper term, sorry, but it gets the point across I think.

It isn't a proper term and I'm guessing that it will create more confusion than anything else.

Badboy
Logged
The Damned (est. 1988)
  • AH Training Corps - Retired
  • Air Warrior Trainer - Retired

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2009, 05:29:32 PM »
Quote from: Badboy on December 10, 2009, 05:25:33 PM
It isn't a proper term and I'm guessing that it will create more confusion than anything else.

Badboy

What would be the proper term to describe what BnZ is saying or is it something that isn't even calculated?


ack-ack
Logged
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Badboy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1217
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2009, 05:36:50 PM »
Quote from: BnZs on December 10, 2009, 05:09:09 PM
No. I mean the ratio of the total lift the entire wing can produce to the weight of the aircraft.

The ratio of lift to weight is normally described using multiples of the weight of the aircraft and is called "g force". So a 7000lb aircraft generating 14000lbs of lift is at 2g. The total lift that a wing can produce increases with airspeed, and is only limited by structural strength or pilot physiology. Those limits are normally expressed in terms of the number of g, that is the ratio between the lift and weight of the aircraft.

Hope that helps...

Badboy
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 05:41:09 PM by Badboy »
Logged
The Damned (est. 1988)
  • AH Training Corps - Retired
  • Air Warrior Trainer - Retired

Offline Badboy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1217
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2009, 05:39:27 PM »
Quote from: Ack-Ack on December 10, 2009, 05:29:32 PM
What would be the proper term to describe what BnZ is saying or is it something that isn't even calculated?
ack-ack

His definition

Quote
No. I mean the ratio of the total lift the entire wing can produce to the weight of the aircraft.

is really just the maximum g.

However, the quotes below:

Quote
Well, some wings obviously generate more lift per unit of area than others...

The aircraft with the lower power-off stall 1G stall speed is the one producing more lift in relation to its weight.

sound like a description of the ability of the wing to produce lift, and that is already described by the lift coefficient.

Badboy
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 05:48:53 PM by Badboy »
Logged
The Damned (est. 1988)
  • AH Training Corps - Retired
  • Air Warrior Trainer - Retired

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2009, 05:43:01 PM »
Quote from: Badboy on December 10, 2009, 05:25:33 PM
It isn't a proper term and I'm guessing that it will create more confusion than anything else.

Badboy

Okay, what DO you call it when a given aircraft has a higher wing-loading in terms of pure weight/square footage but actually can produce more lift in relation to its weight? Resulting in lower stall speed, better instantaneous turn, and all that.
Logged
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2009, 05:56:59 PM »
It would seem much easier to just compare wing area to weight (lbs/m -- or square feet for us Yanks)
Logged

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2009, 05:58:39 PM »
Quote from: Krusty on December 10, 2009, 05:56:59 PM
It would seem much easier to just compare wing area to weight (lbs/m -- or square feet for us Yanks)

It is easiest yes, but does not always correct.
Logged
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Badboy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1217
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2009, 05:59:43 PM »
Quote from: BnZs on December 10, 2009, 05:43:01 PM
Okay, what DO you call it when a given aircraft has a higher wing-loading in terms of pure weight/square footage but actually can produce more lift in relation to its weight? Resulting in lower stall speed, better instantaneous turn, and all that.

What you have just described is a situation where an aircraft has higher wing loading but also has a higher maximum coefficient of lift.

Badboy

Logged
The Damned (est. 1988)
  • AH Training Corps - Retired
  • Air Warrior Trainer - Retired

Offline Cthulhu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2463
Re: "Lift Loading"
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2009, 06:26:01 PM »
Quote from: Badboy on December 10, 2009, 05:59:43 PM
What you have just described is a situation where an aircraft has higher wing loading but also has a higher maximum coefficient of lift.

Badboy



Yep. Consider a wing with a higher wing loading, but with a higher AR as well, and hence potentially higher lift. Or, consider two wings of equal planform, but with two very different airfoils. Same wing loading, not so same lift. (fixing all other parameters, of course)
Logged
"Think of Tetris as a metaphor for life:  You spend all your time trying to find a place for your long thin piece, then when you finally do, everything you've built disappears"
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
« previous next »