Author Topic: Game is reaching new lows.  (Read 9976 times)

Offline fudgums

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #105 on: December 22, 2009, 12:32:08 PM »
Bip remember he will be at 30K to conserve fuel
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Offline Sonicblu

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #106 on: December 22, 2009, 12:43:54 PM »
LOL So much overgeneralized and deleted info to even make a valid point.

Here is some of the deleted info. A certain sqaud or group or guys comes over "looking for a fight"

I up  and just about the time i get gear up I get bounced not by ONE Guy "looking for a fight" but by three or more in a row. The 4th or 5th guy happens to have angles and gets the kill. Hell ya im going to stay in the ack. Then I get hey come out of the ack and fight F4u. on 200 by vet players that I know can duel.

So I up again this time skimming the noe. go past icon range and climb out come back co alt. Get one of these guys in a fight and four squadies jump in and pick you to death. So YES I will HO you and run like hell oh i mean extend. OR I have to go back to ack. Which is then fun to watch them fly though tons of ack trying to get the kill yet wont go 1 v 1.

The other night I shot down three on one only to have two of them come back with low eny planes a niki and la7 this time engaged la7 no fight niki tryied to pick.

It is the supposed VETS doing this IT makes for Poor game play. And teaches newer guys to do just what you are saying. Run Hide in ack and ho.
Some of you are teaching this behaviour by your own lame game play.

I say show me the Film. If you get HOed by me it was your own fault. YOU wont find my hoing one a `1 v1 or 1 v2 you gang me Ill take any shot.

Offline CAP1

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #107 on: December 22, 2009, 01:05:29 PM »
LOL So much overgeneralized and deleted info to even make a valid point.

Here is some of the deleted info. A certain sqaud or group or guys comes over "looking for a fight"

I up  and just about the time i get gear up I get bounced not by ONE Guy "looking for a fight" but by three or more in a row. The 4th or 5th guy happens to have angles and gets the kill. Hell ya im going to stay in the ack. Then I get hey come out of the ack and fight F4u. on 200 by vet players that I know can duel.

So I up again this time skimming the noe. go past icon range and climb out come back co alt. Get one of these guys in a fight and four squadies jump in and pick you to death. So YES I will HO you and run like hell oh i mean extend. OR I have to go back to ack. Which is then fun to watch them fly though tons of ack trying to get the kill yet wont go 1 v 1.

The other night I shot down three on one only to have two of them come back with low eny planes a niki and la7 this time engaged la7 no fight niki tryied to pick.

It is the supposed VETS doing this IT makes for Poor game play. And teaches newer guys to do just what you are saying. Run Hide in ack and ho.
Some of you are teaching this behaviour by your own lame game play.

I say show me the Film. If you get HOed by me it was your own fault. YOU wont find my hoing one a `1 v1 or 1 v2 you gang me Ill take any shot.

i've long said it's the vets doing this crap. not all of em. just some.

as much as i hate to say it, there's only one way it's gonna stop. call em on it. here. on 200. whatever it takes, they need to be called.
 once they're exposed in their lies, they'll stop.
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Offline crutch

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #108 on: December 22, 2009, 01:21:43 PM »
Guys using REAL wingman tactics will do just what you were talking about, sans the taunting.

only in dueling is a fight 'fair'  :O

everywhere else, expect to be outnumbered, ganged whatever.

in RL pilots didnt have the option to come up from another airfield if theirs was capped.  YOU DO.

come up from another fld, spend the time to get alt and then counter-vultch the vultchers. vultching WAS a real tactic much used in the wars.

one thing you dont see is the RL tactic of sending a solo low with his mates high and ready to bounce on anyone that tries to tag their 'bait' ;)
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #109 on: December 22, 2009, 01:34:18 PM »
No offense Shuffler but...what exactly is the improvement if someone is fighting your fight? There isn't one person in this game that hasn't lost a dogfight even using all of his "skillz" and some uber ride. If 2 Spixteens want to mix it up that's great but it's rarely that kind of situation...so the person who feels as if he is at some sort of disadvantage due to either his knowledge and ability in executing ACM or the plane he chose to fly...should fight on whatever terms he feels are appropriate, not yours. If you want to force your fight on him, there are ways other than calling implying he has a lack of skill just because he doesn't want to fight on your terms.



You put your personal feelings of yourself into what I posted.
Let me rephrase it so you might see what I'm saying.
If you let yourself think that you are going to lose most every fight, you most likely will. Even when falling back on trying to ho, you will fail your shot many times. You'll be self restricted to this maneuver most every time. The reason is you don't try getting out of the rut you make for yourself.

If you start trying to maneuver you will die a lot at first. After awhile you'll see what works and what doesn't work for you. You may pickup other moves by filming and seeing what your opponent is doing as you maneuver. By doing this you will improve and the ho will be a thing of the past in your bag of tricks. You'll also have a much larger bag of tricks which makes you a harder opponent to beat. Before you know it you'll be having fun in fights rather than trying to stay out of them.

There is nothing negative towards you in this post. If you feel there is, you might try re-reading it when your feeling better. Just trying to help! <S>
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Offline dedalos

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #110 on: December 22, 2009, 02:30:09 PM »

The other night I shot down three on one only to have two of them come back with low eny planes a niki and la7 this time engaged la7 no fight niki tryied to pick.

It is the supposed VETS doing this IT makes for Poor game play. And teaches newer guys to do just what you are saying. Run Hide in ack and ho.
Some of you are teaching this behaviour by your own lame game play.


Agreed
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Crash Orange

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #111 on: December 22, 2009, 02:42:34 PM »
Guys using REAL wingman tactics will do just what you were talking about, sans the taunting.

only in dueling is a fight 'fair'  :O

everywhere else, expect to be outnumbered, ganged whatever.

in RL pilots didnt have the option to come up from another airfield if theirs was capped.  YOU DO.

come up from another fld, spend the time to get alt and then counter-vultch the vultchers. vultching WAS a real tactic much used in the wars.

Sure, but folks who fly that way have no excuse to come here and whine about HOing, running to ack/friends, and other "dweebish" game play. Pot, kettle, black, etc.

What I find hilarious is how many of the blowhards on these forums saying "Try some of that 'pile-it' stuff you might learn something" are the ones I most often see in the MA doing all the stuff you mention. Just how much does one learn flying around at 20k waiting to pick the lone con one's 3 friends have engaged? And what lesson does the guy getting picked learn, except to run for ack/friends or do whatever else it takes not to get killed that way?

"UR flyin lik a dw33b" usually just means "You're not paying your dues by letting me kill you when I have all the advantages." Half the guys saying it are the first ones to run home to Momma in their la-las and k4s as soon as they no longer have alt and numbers.

Offline shiv

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #112 on: December 22, 2009, 03:44:09 PM »
after 10+ years, I have a pretty good idea what works and what doesnt in a given situation.

a fight in anything but the dueling arena is NOT a duel and assuming it is just plain dumb.


it takes great deal of smarts to know when you CAN run from a fight once that fight has started and once you have lost the advantage you run away until you regain the advantage.

why waste your time and give it away for free crutch  :headscratch:

just direct them to where they can buy the books  :D :D :D

"toontown"  :rofl


So there's a book that teaches you to run away?  Seems like a lot of the guys here have already read it...

Don't know about a new low.  It's the same as it's always been, some guys will never fight straight up if they can help it and they can find all kind of ways to justify that.  Luckily there's enough good fights to make up for the griefing.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.


Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #113 on: December 22, 2009, 05:07:55 PM »
after 10+ years, I have a pretty good idea what works and what doesnt in a given situation.

a fight in anything but the dueling arena is NOT a duel and assuming it is just plain dumb.


it takes great deal of smarts to know when you CAN run from a fight once that fight has started and once you have lost the advantage you run away until you regain the advantage.


I bought Shaw's book as well as "In Pursuit" AND "Check 6", all are sitting on my shelf. I've read all three.

If we are talking "real life" I can understand the above statement, but where's the fun in ALWAYS fighting with the advantage? This is a game after all, why run away to reset a fight you lost an advantage on....if you even had one to start with. Is it smart to dive in on 3 bad guys, no, but its a heck of a lot of fun to beat all three.

If you want to circle at 20k, and ONLY make a pass at a guy while he's busy, or your coming out of the sun, or your wingman has him roped, you are selling yourself short. The top "cartoon pilots" (not the bozo's at the top of the scoreboard) don't have any special codes, or planes. They have a ton of practice under their belts and know the very edge of the limits of not only their planes, but the ones they are fighting. There are guys flying this game that can run up 50 kill runs with-out a death and NEVER go over 10k ! By limiting yourself to 20K BnZ runs and disengaging everytime you "think" you have lost the advantage, then that is ALL you will ever be able to do.

If I run away from a fight I certainly DO NOT believe I won the fight, however if I make someone run away from me, I believe I have won the fight, they have forfeited the fight to me.

Offline BiPoLaR

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #114 on: December 22, 2009, 05:47:08 PM »
Bip remember he will be at 30K to conserve fuel
lol i know
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Offline Kweassa

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #115 on: December 22, 2009, 05:55:53 PM »
Frankly, everytime a clandestine 'vet' comes here and complains how MA "dweebs" and "n00bs" have all ruined the "art of fighting" or whatever abstract bullshi* self-gratifying crap they spew, it can always be summarized in a few key points:

1. "You aren't letting me kill you and it's no fun for me"
2. "You should 'learn to fight' by becoming my cannon fodder"
4. "It's only a game. You trying to survive is lame. You should die on the spot when I attack"
5. "Unlike you, I survive purely with my ph34rD l33t skillz, so those things I say doesn't count for me."

...

Well, good job "dweebs" and "n00bs".

There's an old saying in this world that goes, "someone accusing you is the best compliment ever." While you average joes and dweebs and MA n00bs may not have enuff l33T skillz to piss off them vets individually, as a group, them vets all pissed off and complaining about you means you're doing something right.

Offline kilo2

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #116 on: December 22, 2009, 06:01:41 PM »
Frankly, everytime a clandestine 'vet' comes here and complains how MA "dweebs" and "n00bs" have all ruined the "art of fighting" or whatever abstract bullshi* self-gratifying crap they spew, it can always be summarized in a few key points:

1. "You aren't letting me kill you and it's no fun for me"
2. "You should 'learn to fight' by becoming my cannon fodder"
4. "It's only a game. You trying to survive is lame. You should die on the spot when I attack"
5. "Unlike you, I survive purely with my ph34rD l33t skillz, so those things I say doesn't count for me."

...

Well, good job "dweebs" and "n00bs".

There's an old saying in this world that goes, "someone accusing you is the best compliment ever." While you average joes and dweebs and MA n00bs may not have enuff l33T skillz to piss off them vets individually, as a group, them vets all pissed off and complaining about you means you're doing something right.

QFT
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Offline Kweassa

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #117 on: December 22, 2009, 06:14:17 PM »
Quote
If we are talking "real life" I can understand the above statement, but where's the fun in ALWAYS fighting with the advantage? This is a game after all, why run away to reset a fight you lost an advantage on....if you even had one to start with. Is it smart to dive in on 3 bad guys, no, but its a heck of a lot of fun to beat all three.

For some reason, you don't seem to apply the same logic when a fight happens between a lesser-skilled average joe vs. a l33T vet.

Here's the fact, Fugi - by definition a better-skilled player is inherently ALWAYS fighting with the advantage. I mean, these guys neutralize alt-advantages, can outmaneuver you even with a bigger, fatter plane, can hit you from d600+ when you can't hit the broadside of the barn from d200, pull all kinds of blind-lead shots, and sometimes even beat numbers odds.

It's like a cat complaining to the mice,

"...Hey, fighting these odds can sometimes be fun, so why avoid the danger and run from me? You filthy mice always gang up on me, and then run away when things go bad. Its bad form... "

Woo-hoo, from the mice's point of view, the cat being the cat is bad form from the start.



Quote
If you want to circle at 20k, and ONLY make a pass at a guy while he's busy, or your coming out of the sun, or your wingman has him roped, you are selling yourself short. The top "cartoon pilots" (not the bozo's at the top of the scoreboard) don't have any special codes, or planes. They have a ton of practice under their belts and know the very edge of the limits of not only their planes, but the ones they are fighting. There are guys flying this game that can run up 50 kill runs with-out a death and NEVER go over 10k ! By limiting yourself to 20K BnZ runs and disengaging everytime you "think" you have lost the advantage, then that is ALL you will ever be able to do.

So? Ever consider the fact that perhaps they don't need, or want, to do anything else?

The vets say they don't care about winning or losing, and all they want is a fun fight.

In that case, they are welcome to form a "squad of doom" or something, and always up from bases directly under attack from the enemy horde. I mean, upping from vulched bases, fighting against 5~10 to 1 odds, survivng the onslaught.. who cares if the K/D falls below 1.0 and you are shot down every 30 seconds? Would this not be the ultimate test of skill, wits, and luck? I mean it's got everything - evading enemy attack, neutralizing alt advantages, single-handedly killing multiple enemies, the vulchee breaking the vulch... wow! The ultimate adrenaline rush.. no boring alt grabbing, the fight begins the moment you spawn!

If they really like the "fun of combat", then they shouldn't have any problems enjoying a fight they are destined to lose, right?

...

Well, for some reason the vets (especially the vets) don't ever seem to show their face in a fight like this.

In the end, this is a competitive game, and the purpose is to win.

It's only fun when you have a reasonable chance of winning, and the vets saying, "I enjoy the pure fun of combat" is basically bullshi*.

What they are really saying is, "I enjoy the pure fun of combat (even with a few handicaps... I still have a very good chance of winning since I'm l33T, and whatever 'advantages' those bone-headed n00bs secure can be easily nuked. Besides, I can humiliate their existence by beating them with those handicaps, as long as they stick around long enough for me to slap them silly... except these damn fools won't let me kill them.. grrrrr)"



Quote
If I run away from a fight I certainly DO NOT believe I won the fight, however if I make someone run away from me, I believe I have won the fight, they have forfeited the fight to me.

You don't win unless you shoot me down, and I don't lose until I'm shot down.

End of story.

(Besides, it's wierd ain't it? If you consider it a win when the enemy runs away, then what's the problem? You've won the fight! Yay! Why complain?)


« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 06:36:59 PM by Kweassa »

Offline Bronk

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #118 on: December 22, 2009, 06:55:01 PM »
Kweassa
I have just one question and I'm being serious with no malice intended.


How do you get any better at dog fighting if you never commit to a fight?
See Rule #4

Offline Motherland

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Re: Game is reaching new lows.
« Reply #119 on: December 22, 2009, 06:57:02 PM »
You get better at dogfighting by surviving the same way you get better at surviving by dogfighting. The skills transfer between all forms of fighting.