New Bomber Tactic (not so new)

[stealth]

+1

[The Fugitive]

You are not supporting a fight in this thread noob. Either lead follow or get out of the way.

LOL!!! again with the "noob", what a dork.

OK lets look at it this way. You made your proposal. I think it lacks enough info to convince me, but I'm not the one who needs convincing. So I suggest.... if you think you have even the slightest possibility of pushing something like this through.... that you try and convince Hitech. Now if you have been reading the boards you'll know that Hitech is no fool and reads though stupid request with ease. Convince him that what your requesting is in no way so you can add more kills to your scoresheet.

Of the 32 people flying B24s you have shot down only 5 of them have been a multiple of 3 which means for the most part you blast through once and haul ass. To me and many others this is NOT fighting, it's score padding.

So oh great and all knowing one, convince Hitech of your "honorable" intend on the original suggestion. I enjoy reading your.... posts  

[Bronk]

Fugi check PM pls.

[The Fugitive]

Fugi check PM pls.

Go it Bronk, thanks <S>

[Chalenge]

LOL!!! again with the "noob", what a dork.

OK lets look at it this way. You made your proposal. I think it lacks enough info to convince me, but I'm not the one who needs convincing. So I suggest.... if you think you have even the slightest possibility of pushing something like this through.... that you try and convince Hitech. Now if you have been reading the boards you'll know that Hitech is no fool and reads though stupid request with ease. Convince him that what your requesting is in no way so you can add more kills to your scoresheet.

Of the 32 people flying B24s you have shot down only 5 of them have been a multiple of 3 which means for the most part you blast through once and haul ass. To me and many others this is NOT fighting, it's score padding.

So oh great and all knowing one, convince Hitech of your "honorable" intend on the original suggestion. I enjoy reading your.... posts  

You are a NOOB Fugitive because after all this time (10 years you claim) in AH you have learned nothing. Obviously you dont know what its like to attack escorted bombers in large formations and that is the fight I look for and the fighters greatest fight. I call you a NOOB because you have not yet discovered that this is the greatest thrill a fighter pilot can ever experience (even actual WWII fighter pilots said it was that way). Shooting down an entire formation of bombers only happens when you find them alone but when you find them in large formations and with escorts you have to take what you get AND now that formations generally attack the STRATS you almost certainly have other 'friendlies' attacking the same formations. You are a NOOB because none of that even slightly occured to you.

You are a MORON because you had to resort to insult rather than stick to logic and reasoning (and I am defining the term here rather than resorting to insult myself). If you lack the intelligence to reason your way through an argument without implementing your own 'imagined circumstances' about someone elses flying and fighting than you should refrain from comment altogether and it is obvious you do in fact suffer from this problem.

Now I will tell you the REAL reason I would like to see this changed (not that I have to and you certainly do not deserve it). The proper way to attack bombers is not the NOOB method of climbing up someones six and shooting from the 'slot' of a formation like you see people do (I would think you would be one of those since you obviously do not know how this works). When you find a single formation of three bombers its the same as if you came across an entire squadron and you should attack the same way the luftwaffe did in WWII (from the front). The proper way to do this is to establish the heading and altitude of the formation and to climb at least 2k above and 5k out in front of the formation before attacking.Now what ends up happening once you have mastered this is that the bomber pilots get to know you and they can spot someone that knows what they are doing right off. So what ends up happening to me (and at 30k or higher) is that the first bomber I kill tells them who it is attacking and they wait until I set up for the second attack and bail OR they see the setup for the first pass and they bail. Bombers dont do that in large formation obviously and there are some very good bomber pilots that do not do that because they have learned how to make it more difficult to attack them but the lone formations that dont know any better than a NOOB like fugitive do bail.

Now fugitive you should pay for your crime of NOOBishness by being forced to climb to 30k sixty times way back behind your lines where there is no other enemy to fight and have your target bail on you. This is not about score. I can always kill six noobs in spits fast enough to make up for the sorties where bombers bailed. This is about fights that are thrown away.

[Soulyss]

You are a NOOB Fugitive because after all this time (10 years you claim) in AH you have learned nothing. Obviously you dont know what its like to attack escorted bombers in large formations and that is the fight I look for and the fighters greatest fight. I call you a NOOB because you have not yet discovered that this is the greatest thrill a fighter pilot can ever experience (even actual WWII fighter pilots said it was that way). Shooting down an entire formation of bombers only happens when you find them alone but when you find them in large formations and with escorts you have to take what you get AND now that formations generally attack the STRATS you almost certainly have other 'friendlies' attacking the same formations. You are a NOOB because none of that even slightly occured to you.

You are a MORON because you had to resort to insult rather than stick to logic and reasoning (and I am defining the term here rather than resorting to insult myself). If you lack the intelligence to reason your way through an argument without implementing your own 'imagined circumstances' about someone elses flying and fighting than you should refrain from comment altogether and it is obvious you do in fact suffer from this problem.

How can you start the 2nd paragraph with an insult then finish the same sentence by saying that you won't resort to insults.  Furthermore how can you can claim that you won't implement your own "imagined circumstances about someone else flying and fighting" after you spend the entire first paragraph of your post projecting a certain flying style on Fugi.

Finally framing the opinion that bomber escort is the greatest thrill of a fighter pilot as fact is a poor argument that has nothing to stand on.

[Chalenge]

Soulyss you obviously didnt understand what I was saying. Definition of moron: one who resorts to insult... etc.

I also never said escorting bombers is a great thrill... what I said (or tried to convey) is that attacking escorted large formation of bombers is the greatest fight a fighter pilot could hope for. Yes its 'fun' to have a good 1v1 but you stick your nose in on a large formation and try to pick off a bomber and see what it does for the thrill factor.

[BaldEagl]

and by the way there's really no evading in buffs. you basically have to sit there and take it. 

False.

Three examples:

1.  I'm in a set of Lancs over 24K when a P-51 attacks me.  He gets both my drones then it turns into an all-out dogfight.  Lancs perform very well at high alt vs. a single engine prop plane.  The P-51 finally gets frustrated and leaves.  I fly home and land my remaining Lanc.

2.  I'm in a set of AR234's being chased by a ME262.  As he approaches I dive to my maximum speed, then lift the nose to try to get a shot with my cannon.  I miss.  I turn left to swing my drones out wide then right back toward them while also using the vertical.  I keep doing this frustrating the 262's shot opportunities.  All the while I'm losing alt and headed toward my base.  I finally screem in over the ack at over 500 mph.  The 262 turns for home (5-6 sectors away) and I turn and land all three of my 262's.

3.  I'm in a set of Bostons when a P-51 comes in from behind me.  Like the 262's I use left and right manouvers to swing my drones out wide then turn back into them reversing the swing.  Again I'm diving continually toward my base.  The P-51 finally runs out of ammo after killing one engine on one of my drones.  I fly home to land all three Bostons.

The point is you can manouver and you don't have to just sit there and take it.

[guncrasher]

False.

Three examples:

1.  I'm in a set of Lancs over 24K when a P-51 attacks me.  He gets both my drones then it turns into an all-out dogfight.  Lancs perform very well at high alt vs. a single engine prop plane.  The P-51 finally gets frustrated and leaves.  I fly home and land my remaining Lanc.

2.  I'm in a set of AR234's being chased by a ME262.  As he approaches I dive to my maximum speed, then lift the nose to try to get a shot with my cannon.  I miss.  I turn left to swing my drones out wide then right back toward them while also using the vertical.  I keep doing this frustrating the 262's shot opportunities.  All the while I'm losing alt and headed toward my base.  I finally screem in over the ack at over 500 mph.  The 262 turns for home (5-6 sectors away) and I turn and land all three of my 262's.

3.  I'm in a set of Bostons when a P-51 comes in from behind me.  Like the 262's I use left and right manouvers to swing my drones out wide then turn back into them reversing the swing.  Again I'm diving continually toward my base.  The P-51 finally runs out of ammo after killing one engine on one of my drones.  I fly home to land all three Bostons.

The point is you can manouver and you don't have to just sit there and take it.

1 your two drones that got killed just sat there and took it, doub it that you will dogfite to victory (landing remaining buff is a victory in my book) with a pony.  not very often anyway.

2 I dont fly ar234's so I dont have anything to say about that, so my guess is if you find a plane you just dive to the ground.

3 bostons take so much damage, at least the few times I encountered them, that i would just sit there and kill the pony.

then again as a general rule you fly buffs, you are most likely to fly them straight and let your gunning talk for you.  and I say that as one of the best b17's dogfiters in AW.  my b17's and one gunner killed lots of fiters drop on target then made it back.  but this is AH, little more realistic.   .

semp

[FYB]

Being a bomber pilot myself i find it a shame that after dropping Ordinance on a base you bail. Hate it, quite badly too. People who bail for that reason should be hung by their ****s, if they have any for that matter. Anyone to disagree must be out of their mind... I couldn't care less of the score but when I've just given my time to get up to 20k+ i expect that person to put up a fight, or let me kill them, not have them bail.

Skuzzy if I'm breaking the rule by any chance, go ahead and do what you got to do.

[The Fugitive]

You are a NOOB Fugitive because after all this time (10 years you claim) in AH you have learned nothing. Obviously you dont know what its like to attack escorted bombers in large formations and that is the fight I look for and the fighters greatest fight. I call you a NOOB because you have not yet discovered that this is the greatest thrill a fighter pilot can ever experience (even actual WWII fighter pilots said it was that way). Shooting down an entire formation of bombers only happens when you find them alone but when you find them in large formations and with escorts you have to take what you get AND now that formations generally attack the STRATS you almost certainly have other 'friendlies' attacking the same formations. You are a NOOB because none of that even slightly occured to you.

You are a MORON because you had to resort to insult rather than stick to logic and reasoning (and I am defining the term here rather than resorting to insult myself). If you lack the intelligence to reason your way through an argument without implementing your own 'imagined circumstances' about someone elses flying and fighting than you should refrain from comment altogether and it is obvious you do in fact suffer from this problem.

Now I will tell you the REAL reason I would like to see this changed (not that I have to and you certainly do not deserve it). The proper way to attack bombers is not the NOOB method of climbing up someones six and shooting from the 'slot' of a formation like you see people do (I would think you would be one of those since you obviously do not know how this works). When you find a single formation of three bombers its the same as if you came across an entire squadron and you should attack the same way the luftwaffe did in WWII (from the front). The proper way to do this is to establish the heading and altitude of the formation and to climb at least 2k above and 5k out in front of the formation before attacking.Now what ends up happening once you have mastered this is that the bomber pilots get to know you and they can spot someone that knows what they are doing right off. So what ends up happening to me (and at 30k or higher) is that the first bomber I kill tells them who it is attacking and they wait until I set up for the second attack and bail OR they see the setup for the first pass and they bail. Bombers dont do that in large formation obviously and there are some very good bomber pilots that do not do that because they have learned how to make it more difficult to attack them but the lone formations that dont know any better than a NOOB like fugitive do bail.

Now fugitive you should pay for your crime of NOOBishness by being forced to climb to 30k sixty times way back behind your lines where there is no other enemy to fight and have your target bail on you. This is not about score. I can always kill six noobs in spits fast enough to make up for the sorties where bombers bailed. This is about fights that are thrown away.

WOW !!! Holy Crap ! It's like you have been flying at 30k watching me fly !!! You have my style pegged PERFECTLY !!!   

oh, and for that little side step you tried, as defined by Websters...

Moron
Noun

1. A person of subnormal intelligence.

So your little line of BS "(and I am defining the term here rather than resorting to insult myself)." doesn't fly, be a man admit you were being two faced with your statement like Soulyss mentioned.

Back on topic... Killing groups of buffs are easy in most cases. I prefer a slashing attack above and along the 3-9 line, but will come in on a dead six run if I think I can finish off a group BEFORE they drop. You see I like the hangers to be left up, why? Because I like to have something to fight with, after all thats what the games all about, fighting. Killing buffs isn't fighting.

Everyone knows your style of play. Your a points player. You do what ever it takes to get the best possible points that you can, and that is fine..... for you.  Going after buffs is a good way to get points. Most buff pilots are newbs. Most of the ones you have listed on your kill page aren't even in the top 1500 in bomber let alone over all score. So you have little risk, and a large target.... keeps that hit percentage up. And with the new "strats" set-up you pretty sure "where" they are going to be. The problem is that with most newbs, they don't know how to fight.... thats why most are in buffs  So while you have players with little skill at the other end of your guns you also have people who know that they have a poor score page, and pretty much know they can't win a fight so they bail..... why pad someone elses score board.

How about this, I hate climbing over 12K. I just don't have the time to waste. Unlike you I don't have 236 hours to put into a game for the month, I have a few other things I have to take care of. So my "wish" would be that nobody can fly over 12k. That way I have the chance to get in on these easy buff kills as well as a chance to fight the #4 over all guy on the scoreboard.... just to see how I stack up   

For the record, I think bailing from a perfectly good plane is VERY lame, it's right up there with HOing in my book. Gaming the Game has been here for ever and HTC isn't going to change things to stop people from playing the way that they want as long as it doesn't hit his pocket. Your wish is nothing more than a whine. So is mine, but my wish has the added advantage of being good for the game as it would promote more fighting because well, anyone can make it to 12k pretty quick. 

If you feel disappointed/robbed of your just rewards stop climbing to 30K just hit buffs. I get frustrated diving into hordes so I try to avoid that. I would love to see the hordes broken up, but I'm not going to suggest HTC change the code to do it.... though I'm sure they will if the hordes keep going. Who knows what it will be, last time it was split arenas. I do endlessly suggest to the hordlings to step outside the hordes. To learn to fight on their own. You don't want a fight, you want a score. Take what you can get, but please, can we get rid of the "holier than thou" attitude here on the boards?

[Chalenge]

You missed the point entirely Fugitive but you do prove once and for all you fit the bill nicely. 

[The Fugitive]

You missed the point entirely Fugitive but you do prove once and for all you fit the bill nicely. 

oh I think I got the point, you want it set up so you won't miss out on getting 60 more kills added to your score. It's really pretty simple.

[Bubbajj]

BaldEgl has it right. Teach these kids how to fly bombers and they have a chance to survive and therefore a challenge. A well flow defensive bomber can be a tough nut to crack. I for one, think bombing is as much fun as watching grass grow. When I do get CONed into it, I dump the ords and bail. I don't have the time for another 45 minute flight back home. If there is someone climbing up to get me, I'll hang out and duke it with him. Same result, I don't have a 45 minute flight home.

[Chalenge]

oh I think I got the point, you want it set up so you won't miss out on getting 60 more kills added to your score. It's really pretty simple.

See you just dont get it but low man on the totem never does (ergo: NOOB).

Bombers at 30k are NOT slow. You cannot make a slashing attack on bombers at 30k with any assurance of hitting the line you intend. Its not possible because of the speeds involved and therefore you prove you have never done it.