Did I HO Limbo0?

[SEraider]

Loathing: I do not consider that a HO.  Limbo was not in position to try to avoid a HO, he was in a position of barely having enough E to continue rolling scissors.  You chopped throttle, had gun solution approximately 15 degrees off his nose, and took a shot.

I have guys in the DA who takes 10 degree shots that I consider legitimate.  Now, whether they are nice enough not to take that shot is another matter. 

It seemed that that your duel was an unfriendly duel.  So you are agressively trying to end the fight as you should without hoing and ramming.

In a friendly duel, base on the film I saw and Agent360's screen shots, that is a "marginal" shot that most of us could probably pass up for a more glorious shot (nevermind that could backfire on us  ).

[grizz441]

Thanks for the input. It would seem that almost everyone has had their moment with limbo, heh. I was just wondering if I spotted Grizz, Snaphook, or Dedalos around if I could ask you some questions about the weaker parts of my abilities? You guys seem to have a good technical knowledge of the game and could possibly help me(if you're willing).

I have more of an experience based knowledge, a lot of other guys have the technical knowledge.  I'd be down for some 1v1s one of these nights for sure.

[humble]

Thanks for the input. It would seem that almost everyone has had their moment with limbo, heh. I was just wondering if I spotted Grizz, Snaphook, or Dedalos around if I could ask you some questions about the weaker parts of my abilities? You guys seem to have a good technical knowledge of the game and could possibly help me(if you're willing).

Loathing

I'll be happy to pass on what I know anytime you see me up. however remember that those who can't do teach. There is a point where knowledge meets art and then goes forward and sadly i'm a paint by numbers guy. I can get you to a point in 2-3 hours where the technical nuts and bolts come into focus enough to make sense. You can always learn more stuff but in the end its the application of fairly basic techniques in creative ways that set certain guys apart. You don't need to know 100 ways to skin a cat...just 4 or 5 that compliment each other...then it's all imagination, real time thinking and gunnery.

[TW9]

If both players had guns on one another in this angle wouldn't that have resulted in a ram?  That's the point I've been trying to make, if a player avoids the ram, he doesn't have guns on but the top player, who is controlling the fight in this spot sees this is a thin gun solution and fires even though it's pretty HOish.

Moral of the story?  Don't get caught in this spot on the bottom going nose up at your enemy in plane expecting him to hold guns because most likely he will blast you.

It could result in a ram but the plane coming down with the e should have no problem avoiding someone going nose up near stall. But anyways its all in judgment of what you see. I dont think limbo was avoiding anything. I think he was trying to get his nose up but was incapable of doing so due to poor e management in that situation. When in any kind of knife fight you have to get as close as possible with the other plane as you merge. If one breaks into a manuever too soon and doesnt actually merge then exposes himself. that is completely fair game.

Loathe being on top had the judgment call of taking the shot or not. He made the right call imo. I'd take that shot any day of the week. Unless you show me that you have a shot, I'm blasting your cockpit.

[TW9]

Here's a good example in the 1st fight creton breaks off into a manuever too soon on the 2nd pass after the merge and catches it in the oil. It's a completely valid shot and i dont think creton had any complaints.

Later on in the film i am on the bottom end of a bighorn slashing attack. Granted it wasn't near HO but the tactic is still the same. Get your nose up as much as possible while also letting the other plane get close enough to where u can get the angle on the next pass.

Sorry its old and poor quality but i dont have any of my films from the hay days..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EElAjwTWODI

[JunkyII]

Here's a good example in the 1st fight creton breaks off into a manuever too soon on the 2nd pass after the merge and catches it in the oil. It's a completely valid shot and i dont think creton had any complaints.

Later on in the film i am on the bottom end of a bighorn slashing attack. Granted it wasn't near HO but the tactic is still the same. Get your nose up as much as possible while also letting the other plane get close enough to where u can get the angle on the next pass.

Sorry its old and poor quality but i dont have any of my films from the hay days..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EElAjwTWODI

Who was the second opponent? I hope they learned how to roll right since this fight....very predictable.

I think the first shot was alittle cheap where you smoked his engine, not saying it was HO but in a friendly Duel that was weak

[Sonicblu]

just my to cents.

Some times I have found that part of a pilots tactic is to fly as close to the ho as possible to get a better position on the next merge. Hoping there won't be a front panel shot or HO.

I was in a similar fight with a pilot we merged nose to nose three times I beat him to the merge each time, each time I held off on the trigger hoping to see the fight develop,  the fourth time I didn't and it was just as close well he pulled the trigger and I went poof.

So if Im to the merge first I start shooting if the other guy flys through my guns so be it.

[TW9]

Who was the second opponent? I hope they learned how to roll right since this fight....very predictable.

I think the first shot was alittle cheap where you smoked his engine, not saying it was HO but in a friendly Duel that was weak

Lol I'll let bighorn know you have some pointers for him. PS rolling right in a p51? not the smartest idea. You sir are a no-go at this station. 

And that 1st shot was not weak at all. It was me capitalizing on a mistake he made. If he waited a half second longer it wouldnt have happened. why should i let him get an edge? Thats just setting myself up for failure.

[JunkyII]

Lol I'll let bighorn know you have some pointers for him. PS rolling right in a p51? not the smartest idea. You sir are a no-go at this station. 

And that 1st shot was not weak at all. It was me capitalizing on a mistake he made. If he waited a half second longer it wouldnt have happened. why should i let him get an edge? Thats just setting myself up for failure.

Ill start off saying you have never flown against me so maybe I could give bighorn some tips(whos bighorn?),you just dont know. Second the first bolded area....they say that about 109s as well because it bleeds E, but when used right it can also give you angles That shot was on the second merge.....he didnt get anything there on you angles speaking, you were below him with your nose in great position to have a huge advantage coming out of the initial merge and into the scissors that would soon come. This has been said before these shots are all just an opinion to his their own, I still think its weak and is a path of least resistence in winning a fight.

[TW9]

well if you ever get into a rolling scissors and attempt to reverse and roll right against the prop without stalling or getting shot down let me know i'd like to see that film .. and bighorn is one of the best sticks of games past and has taught many of the current (and past) top sticks in the game.

and i find it funny that you would bring up scissors and call front quarter deflection shots weak considering a majority of horizontal and vertical scissor fights end up with the victor taking a front quarter deflection.

when you're coming face to face with an opponent you merge you dont break off and expose your plane. thats just idiocy.

[JunkyII]

I had one of me and Lazer fighting 38J vs K4 where I remembered getting the killshot coming over the top to the right. I like rolling right for the kill shot becuase when aiming the shot I can bring my nose to the left faster with the torque.....Grizz has a 30mm thread explaining that better then I ever could.


EDIT: watch this video I made, will show at 3 minutes till about 5 where i get into some scissors with a G14, he gets worked because he was predictable all I did was go far right when he was trying to come over the top

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vudletBfGe0

almost forgot the video

[dedalos]

Ill start off saying you have never flown against me so maybe I could give bighorn some tips(whos bighorn?),

 

[TW9]

was good flying but didnt really see anything that proved your point. I mean there was a lot of leftward rolling scissors there. the 2 or so times you went against the prop weren't really comparable to a low and slow duel. And as for being predictable, ACM has been around for about 90 years now. I doubt anybody will be showing much innovation, especially in a video game.

Basically if you are already committed to a rolling scissors fight as we were and already riding the envelope as we were then decided to attempt a reverse by going against the prop, chances are you will snap roll and hit a tree if you didnt get shot down by the guy going with the prop coming around on your 6.

Not saying you dont know what you're talking about just saying at that point in the fight imo a decision like that would cost u the fight.

[Delirium]

Humble, what's a "skinny move"?

It looks like Loathing got around just a little bit faster and Limbo failed to profile his P38. One of the things I tell my P38 students is to always show the flat side of the P38, from the top a blind deaf man with parkinsons could hit it. From the side, its about as small as a 109 and you'd be surprised how often it can save you.

(guess someone didn't read my post from earlier)   

[pervert]

Ill start off saying you have never flown against me so maybe I could give bighorn some tips(whos bighorn?),you just dont know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EJa3griOMg

never met/fought the guy but I'm presuming hes the guy flying point 2 point inside the other guy's scissors its quite difficult, having flew 109s a lot myself its looks more like an 09 pilot in the seat. I used to use that a lot against better turning planes when I was starting to lag behind speed/e wise in the scissors, its very difficult to control. Also from what I heard Domin is an excellent stick himself which makes this an even more amazing video! I can't believe its only got 7 bloody ratings