No Enemy Icons, The new standard

[Vulcan]

That's why we don't have any more fratricide incidents due to blue aircraft, right?  I can tell you that even the most conspicuous friendly ground vehicles and aircraft can be, have been, and will be again, misidentified by aircraft

Please do not confuse visual accuracy with 'buck fever'. There is a significant difference.

[Boxboy]

LOL I sit here and read this thread at 150% mag because my eyes are so bad and you guys want no icon enemy?? Alot of old codgers will be opted OUT when this is opted IN and I am one of them.  The day no enemy icons become the standard is the day I no longer fly FSO.

[PFactorDave]

LOL I sit here and read this thread at 150% mag because my eyes are so bad and you guys want no icon enemy?? Alot of old codgers will be opted OUT when this is opted IN and I am one of them.  The day no enemy icons become the standard is the day I no longer fly FSO.

Agreed,  I think the FSO designers are already going too far...

[Stoney]

Please do not confuse visual accuracy with 'buck fever'. There is a significant difference.

You lost me there.  Can you explain that?

[Stoney]

   If thats so Stoney, thats one event I will miss.

Lucky for you, you won't have to suffer through my events for much longer.

[Dantoo]

Is this short icons thing going to continue?

[gyrene81]

People with actual visual impairments aside, there are a few of you negative responders who I have seen give people $h!t about being noobs, telling people to learn how to fly, "it's all about the fight" and other such nonesense...yet you cannot challenge yourselves beyond arcade settings uber gamer? That is pathetic.

[oakranger]

Agreed,  I think the FSO designers are already going too far...

I love to see FSO where icon in 1000 to no icon on enemy.  I creates a greater challenge and will likely effect most people to get multiple kills.  However, given what the old fart said, he is right.  There are some who have bad eye sight or poor resolution so there for i thing icon should be set at 3 k min. 

[Shifty]

LOL I sit here and read this thread at 150% mag because my eyes are so bad and you guys want no icon enemy?? Alot of old codgers will be opted OUT when this is opted IN and I am one of them.  The day no enemy icons become the standard is the day I no longer fly FSO.

I have old age eyesight problems as well. Especially trying to pick out and enemy plane against the dark water or terrian. I've noticed that when shooting at somebody on the deck the icon seems to be more of a hinderence because my eyes are automatically attracted to the icon and not the enemy plane. Have you ever had this problem?  I've actually turned my icons off in instances like this so I could better see the plane I was fighting. Sometimes the big red icon actually causes me more problems than it solves.

People with actual visual impairments aside, there are a few of you negative responders who I have seen give people $h!t about being noobs, telling people to learn how to fly, "it's all about the fight" and other such nonesense...yet you cannot challenge yourselves beyond arcade settings uber gamer? That is pathetic.

I'm not sure you can call it pathetic, maybe set in their ways is more like it. Icons has long been a hot potato. The funny thing is Daddog mentioned that the no enemy icons setting were for the Combat Challenge not the FSO. Now we got a whole thread of fighting and speculation over it. I don't see why it would hurt to run a few test frames than maybe have a poll or vote by the FSO community. It could end being not the boogy man some think and not the realism holy grail others think. There's a lot of excitement and fighting over something that may not even happen.

[AKDogg]

I personally think 1000yards icon range is to short.  It should be nothing less the 1.5k.  The siloute of the planes is nothing like in real life where u can tell what direction they are heading or what type of plane.  They can have gun solutions on u before u even know what they are.  Guns will reach out and touch ya at 1k, even the taters.  These reasons alone should not allow icon range to be set less then 1.5k.

[PFactorDave]

 They can have gun solutions on u before u even know what they are.  Guns will reach out and touch ya at 1k, even the taters.  These reasons alone should not allow icon range to be set less then 1.5k.

I agree 100%.  This is exactly what happened to me (by you Dogg <S>) during last nights FSO frame.  One second I was clear, the next I had you behind me in gun range shooting.

[AKDogg]

hehe, that because I came from ur 4-5 o'clock low while u shouwing ur belly to me in a turn. When I actually got gun solution on ya is when u noticed I was there at 400 or less.  U then tried to out turn a i-16 with a 109E which wasn't gonna happen, hehehe.  What u were actually succeeding on is using ur speed.  You should have dove out and doing little jinx's to get away.  I-16 is not fast,lol.  We didn't really bother with the Ju-88's because of the fact we know we couldn't really kill them effectively and survive from there escorts.  We took the fighters first round and downed most of ya.  When the bombers returned, we tried to get them with little opposition.  But with the lack of lethality of the I-16 4x7.62mm guns vers a bomber, most ju-88's survived even after we unloaded most of our bullets on yas.  I-16's would have been nice to have at least the 50cal option for the bombers.

[gyrene81]

I have old age eyesight problems as well. Especially trying to pick out and enemy plane against the dark water or terrian. I've noticed that when shooting at somebody on the deck the icon seems to be more of a hinderence because my eyes are automatically attracted to the icon and not the enemy plane. Have you ever had this problem?  I've actually turned my icons off in instances like this so I could better see the plane I was fighting. Sometimes the big red icon actually causes me more problems than it solves.

I have the same issue even though I'm looking using a 22 inch monitor...and my vision is 20/10 corrected...with fights on the deck, you end up shooting at the flippin icon and not the plane...I've turned the enemy icons off and plane identification has gotten easier to the point of "oh crap it's a spitfire"...not spitfire VIII at 800 and closing...and I use the zoom function more...now if I could just shoot better.  
The real challenge is identifying and trying to kill enemy gv's without augering...

I'm not sure you can call it pathetic, maybe set in their ways is more like it. Icons has long been a hot potato. The funny thing is Daddog mentioned that the no enemy icons setting were for the Combat Challenge not the FSO. Now we got a whole thread of fighting and speculation over it. I don't see why it would hurt to run a few test frames than maybe have a poll or vote by the FSO community. It could end being not the boogy man some think and not the realism holy grail others think. There's a lot of excitement and fighting over something that may not even happen.

I said pathetic due to the attitudes I've seen some of the naysayers in this thread have displayed toward others knowing that without thier precious icons they aren't any better than anyone else. We all know where a poll or vote would go...20 regular forum hounds would make the decision for 400 people who have no clue since they don't even bother reading the forums...and of those 20 regular forum hounds, only 6 or 7 of us would like to see this one change implemented at some point. I guaranty the aerial kill stats for each event would be different until everyone got used to the views.

[Shifty]

We all know where a poll or vote would go...20 regular forum hounds would make the decision for 400 people who have no clue since they don't even bother reading the forums...and of those 20 regular forum hounds, only 6 or 7 of us would like to see this one change implemented at some point. I guaranty the aerial kill stats for each event would be different until everyone got used to the views.

Every squad that participates in the FSO should have it's CO or XO monitoring this BBS Section. They could encourage their squadmates to vote on if they like or dislike the icon settings that way it's not left to forum hounds. Run the settings at no enemy icons for a few frames and then vote. It would be a good way to settle an old argument, plus if the majority of FSO pilots would vote it would be the community's preference. YMMV
<S>

[Shifty]

I disagree entirely, spotting and identifying an aircraft at 2 miles is not difficult at all. You'll probably find that most blue on blue incidents were cases of 'buck fever', a function of the brain rather than the eye.  The USAF did an air to ground target detection study and found pilots were able to spot and identify targets (ie trucks, cars etc) from 6.5 miles to 2.8 miles <- note 2.8 was the minimum - and this is ground targets.

That explains all the blue on blue attacks by A-10s in Iraq and Afghanistan. These are pilots trained in CAS and FAC tactics.  Studies and actual combat are two different things.
Saburo Sakai claimed to have spotted B-17s sitting on the field at Clark AirField from miles away. Nine months later he flys up behind a group of TBMs thinking they're F4Fs and gets his
himself and his bird shot to ribbons.