Author Topic: WW1 assesment of the planes  (Read 6985 times)

Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #75 on: March 15, 2010, 12:24:57 PM »
Slightly off topic...

Went searching around on the intarwebzorz over the weekend for replica WWI AC for sale.

Do you have any idea how cheap these things are?  Fully built kits (by manufacturer) at a 1:1 scale are almost all under $15,000.  I saw a used DR1 for $9,500 with about 75 hours on it, total.

Is there any reason why people like us (read: deep love of aviation; wallet not quite as deep) don't pursue this route?  That's less than most cars.

Offline caldera

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #76 on: March 15, 2010, 02:00:03 PM »


Is there any reason why people like us (read: deep love of aviation; wallet not quite as deep) don't pursue this route?  That's less than most cars.


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Offline waystin2

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #77 on: March 15, 2010, 02:01:37 PM »

I'll take Wife Ack for $400, Alex.

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Offline 68ZooM

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2010, 02:47:17 PM »
Slightly off topic...

Went searching around on the intarwebzorz over the weekend for replica WWI AC for sale.

Do you have any idea how cheap these things are?  Fully built kits (by manufacturer) at a 1:1 scale are almost all under $15,000.  I saw a used DR1 for $9,500 with about 75 hours on it, total.

Is there any reason why people like us (read: deep love of aviation; wallet not quite as deep) don't pursue this route?  That's less than most cars.

Hmmmm thanks for the post, im going to look at some of the kits, i wouldnt mind selling my mastercraft for a Kite, (no wife ack) but im sure my son might get pissed cause the wakeboad boats gone lol
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #79 on: March 15, 2010, 04:48:47 PM »
Hmm dangerous comes to mind.....
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Offline Bronk

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #80 on: March 15, 2010, 04:53:59 PM »
Hmm dangerous comes to mind.....
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Offline Zoney

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #81 on: March 15, 2010, 05:35:27 PM »
Hmmmm thanks for the post, im going to look at some of the kits, i wouldnt mind selling my mastercraft for a Kite, (no wife ack) but im sure my son might get pissed cause the wakeboad boats gone lol

Or he could be the coolest kid on the planet BECAUSE he wakeboards behind a DR1.
Wag more, bark less.

Offline TonyJoey

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #82 on: March 15, 2010, 10:09:16 PM »
So far, I've flown the Camel the most trying to get something out of it, to no avail. I did find, as Sax pointed out earlier, that it can make a nose low turn to the right like nobody's business. On the other hand, the D.VII has really peaked my interest. So far I've used high yo-yo's with some speed in it to keep/gain an advantage on opposing planes. This scenario happened today; A Dr.I and I got into a 1v1. immediately he made a harsh right turn to get on me. I made a much smoother high yo-yo to the right. After a few seconds, he had came around the corner, but was much lower than me. I pulled up just that little bit to stall out, where I came down in a dive and blew him away as he tried to turn away.

Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #83 on: March 15, 2010, 10:51:09 PM »
Hmm dangerous comes to mind.....

That's essentially the motivation for my question.

Some of these seem to be registered as ultralights which makes their operation subject to lesser FAA regulation, yes?

Theoretically arriving at a less safe airplane?

(ignoring the rotary engines).

Offline Saxman

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #84 on: March 16, 2010, 12:43:02 AM »
The Camel is going to be one of those planes like the late 109s, 152, P-51, and to a lesser extent the F4Us where you REALLY need to know how to work her to fully take advantage of her capabilities. But if you can do that, she's going to be one NASTY piece of work to engage. That wicked low-yo to the right is going to shock the hell out of a lot of Dr.I drivers when they try to flat-turn against her, and all the sudden get their bellies full of lead. If a Camel pilot can also master that hard snap-roll to the right she can change direction REALLY quickly, even to the left. Hammerheads and high-yos to the right are also greatly assisted by the same engine torque. I think she's going to eventually prove to be a more dangerous opponent to the D.VII than people realize as more pilots learn to really put her quirks to use. Particularly since the Camel maneuvers well at almost all speeds, and is less prone to breaking up under Gs than the F2B and Dr.I.
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Offline Boxboy

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #85 on: March 16, 2010, 04:18:18 AM »
The Dr I seems a bit to fast for me, but I could be wrong??? The D VII should be able to run away from a DR I but that doesn't seem to be the case here??  Not sure which engine the D VII has tho it could be that first one that was anaemic?
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Offline Ghosth

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #86 on: March 16, 2010, 06:34:25 AM »
D7 does walk away from the Dr1 given enough time. But figure a 5 minute flight max back to your own base.
And a speed difference of less than 5 mph. It takes more than 5 min to open up a significant lead.

Offline HPriller

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #87 on: March 16, 2010, 12:19:27 PM »
I have to disagree with Saxman on his analysis of the camel, particularly versus the Dr1.  For starters, when it comes to ability to handle g-loading, the advantage is definitely with the Dr1.  I rarely if ever break the dr1 from overstressing it in maneuvers, the camel on the other hand has a tendency to lose parts of the top wing in a high g turn.  The only possible advantage of the camel that I've seen is acceleration.  Top speeds are similar, climb and turn rates both favor the Dr1.  Visibility is laughable in the camel when compared to the Dr1.  I espescially like the cut out middle wing, that's a brilliant design providing even better visibility.  Meanwhile in the camel all you've got is a little box to see up through the massive upper wing, and even the forward view is ruined by the support wire junction and absurd gunsite.  Target profile and damage resistance also seem to favor the Dr1, overall it's a much smaller target and still very flyable even missing several parts particularly parts of wings.  The same can't be said of the camel.   

On this matter I've even noticed some peculiar characteristics of the Dr1.  On one flight I lost both complete sides of the upper wing including ailerons, both middle wings were also wittled down significantly and the wheels, and presumably the lifting surface between them was also gone.  The net result of this damage was quite surprising.  The plane was still very flyable and under control.  Aileron roll control was still present!  I'm not sure if this is a bug or it's meant to simulate the pilot leaning left and right in the seat to roll the plane but either way, significant roll control is still available with the ailerons gone in this plane.  Additionally, my top speed had surged.  In level flight, I was able to easily maintain over 120 mph, a gain of at least 5-10mph from all that damage.

Even an undamaged Dr1 does some amazing things, such as climbing over 900 ft/min inverted!  I have to wonder if that's a bug too as with that airfoil and general plane configuration I have a hard time believing it could even maintain level flight inverted.

Offline LesterBoffo

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Re: WW1 assesment of the planes
« Reply #88 on: March 16, 2010, 01:35:53 PM »
That's essentially the motivation for my question.

Some of these seem to be registered as ultralights which makes their operation subject to lesser FAA regulation, yes?

Theoretically arriving at a less safe airplane?

(ignoring the rotary engines).

 You realize that the extreme rarity of rotary engines is going to make finding one for the kit really expensive. 

Abandoned WWI replica kits are a dime a dozen.  It when people start to look for a suitable engine for their project that they decide that maybe collectors cars weren't all that expensive.