P-47N, 1st FS, 413 FG

[Krusty]

Stoney, would they not open the cowl flaps in combat, as well? That's very strange behavior!

I might tone down the gaps a bit. I think AH actually has a slightly opened cowl flap, but mine seem to imply the flaps are open much more than modeled. I think if I tone them down it so they imply a lesser degree of being open that it will look better.

As for the "uniform" metal, I agree. Like I said I need to look into why it's doing this, but it looks way WAY different on the bitmap. I can try posting what the bitmap looks like next to the in-game screenshot and you may be shocked. *IF* I ever get back to my gaming rig, that is. Bit frazzled the past couple days.

I have a hunch it may be the materials.txt. I just have not been able to sit down and test my theory.

In short, I agree with you and am going to work on it 

[AWwrgwy]

Yes, font seems wrong.  Or, at the very least "backwards".  It's hard to tell from that screen shot.  See Greebo's 19th FS P-47N.

I can't tell if your A had a "narrow" side to it.  But if it does, according to the picture on the actual aircraft, it should be narrow on the other side.



wrongway

[Krusty]

I noted the C, didn't notice the asymmetrical A.

Mine was equilateral. Will fix!

[Stoney]

Stoney, would they not open the cowl flaps in combat, as well? That's very strange behavior!

Typically, the cooling systems on these radials were designed that they didn't need any manipulation during flight.  I know sometimes the bomber crews would open them on long, high-powered climbs to improve cooling flow.  However, most fighters kept them shut during normal flight.  I believe the specification was that at max continuous power, and normal climb angles, there was to be sufficient cooling flow that cowl flaps were not needed to maintain normal cylinder head temperatures (CHT).  For example, one of the items on the takeoff checklist are to close the cowl flaps.  At typical cruise speeds and higher, there was more than enough cooling air that didn't require open cowl flaps.  I've even seen some Vne (Never exceed speed) for cowl flap operation.  Baumer or Bohdi could probably expound if I've made errors here.  That being said, for the P-47 specifically, cowl flaps were operated automatically based on CHT, as long as the pilot set them for automatic operation (which was the normal setting).  I always frown when I have to manually manipulate them on IL2's P-47.

For whatever its worth.  I know a lot of the skinning community likes to add details like this to spice up the skin--kind of like the gun soot deal I guess.

Regardless, I look forward to the finished product.

[PJ_Godzilla]

That being said, for the P-47 specifically, cowl flaps were operated automatically based on CHT, as long as the pilot set them for automatic operation (which was the normal setting).  I always frown when I have to manually manipulate them on IL2's P-47.

Thanks, again, estimable Stoney one, for contributing something interesting...

My question: so how did that work? Clearly, this is pre-pcb - indeed, sort of pre-electronics. Automatic operation based on CHP sounds a lot like some kind of antiquated bimetalllic-strip based thermostat operating some kind of actuator. Are those flaps binary (open or closed - in which case I envision some kind of crazy banging solenoid), multiple position, totally variable, what?

[Krusty]

Electronics can be analog. Look at all the cockpit instruments! I suspect it was just a heat sensor hooked to some sort of variable switch. As the temps go up, current goes up, moving the cowl flap motor?

[Stoney]

My question: so how did that work?

Well, the only detail the POH goes into is that the Cowl Flaps were controlled by the hydraulic system, which I assume was in turn controlled by a solenoid connected to the CHT gauge.  I think they were totally variable.  Could have been some sort of thermocouple I guess?  Additionally, at the risk of a minor hijack, the oil cooler doors and turbo inter-cooler doors were both automatically controlled.  The oil cooler doors also were regulated by CHT, whereas the intercooler doors were controlled by the Carb Air Inlet temp gauge.  As the carb air inlet temp went up, the intercooler doors opened up.

What amazes me as I learn more and more about these aircraft is that the systems used were very advanced, even though the means used to operate them were clunky and used older tech. 

Anyway, I'll attempt to contain my inner Cliff Clavin for the remainder of this thread...   

[Krusty]

NORM!

Thanks for chiming in heheh.

I'll get some work done tomorrow and Saturday, hopefully have some more to show then.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Electronics can be analog. Look at all the cockpit instruments! I suspect it was just a heat sensor hooked to some sort of variable switch. As the temps go up, current goes up, moving the cowl flap motor?

Yes, hence my "sort of". Old "electronics" are not really electronics as we know them today. Even tube TV's look pretty foreign.

If all those flaps are hydraulically actuated, I wonder if they're all just linked on some kind of master single-point actuator, just to keep the plumbing from getting ridiculous. Also, w/r the hydraulics, the CHT sensor must've been able to either dictate position on some kind of pot or resistance on a variable resistor in order to tell the actuator some position on a continuous scale. I could think of a couple of ways to do this but they all seem really shaky. That's the thing that always blows me away about the old stuff - and Stoney mentioned it - they did it without computers. Hell, I'll look at old auto package drawings and just shake my head. Imagine packaging even a relatively simple car like a '64.5 Mustang without CAD.

[Krusty]

I'm still monkeying with materials.txt settings and such. It seems to add specularity but dull other colors (greys become more monotone) depending on what file I swap in. I'll need to find a good balance.

Fix list:
removed trim panel line
nav lights
black markings tweaks
anti-glare
stars
cowl flap details
1st fs emblem tweaking
fuselage codes
various bits, odds and ends that drove me nuts







And for Raven:



I need to re-mix the panel lines on top of the wings because they were optimized for my previous skin and I have done things different layers-wise (meaning they interact the wrong way for this file, but looked okay in the previous skin).

[Nr_RaVeN]

Thanks for the pit view .
Very crisp. You'll sort out those Pl in short order. Is she going to represent a new arival or a "has seen action" bird?

[Krusty]

Well I've got 'er stained and such, am going to try something with the black markings areas, but at this point I don't want to go overboard.

"heavy use, short life" being the objective I have in mind.


edit: typo fix

[Krusty]

Was playing around with the skin viewer materials sliders. Rather confusing how they work. I'd like to enter some values manually, but I would really love to re-read the breakdown of what the 5 values are and what they do.

Does anybody have that saved from years back when they introduced the textures? Or have it bookmarked?

[lyric1]

One NIT pick on my part the Anti glare panel should continue on past both sides of the fin based off these other P47N pics I have.

[Stoney]

I think the cowl flap effect is much better--less conspicuous.  I'd probably darken the joint around the main gear doors, since that's probably not a zero-tolerance gap there.  I like the different shades of aluminum metal, but there's something missing, and I can't put my finger on it.  Do you have some sort of gradient built into the fuselage color?  If you do, IMO, allow the game's lighting to create the gradient, and simply adjust the material file to get the proper "shine".