"that" apache video

[Vulcan]

I wanna hear some feedback from guys here that have served about 'that' apache video. I've watched it several times, and although I see things that I think "OK that was provocative" (like the guy crouching and looking around the corner) I found the whole video pretty shocking. For the life of me I can so no justification in the actions taken and feel that this time the left-wing-whale-hugging-lesbian-peaceniks have it right this time.

From where I sit I think that well... there are thousands of op's in iraq, and there's bound to be some clown screw up every now and then. But then what disappoints me is that no fault was found. However I've never served, let alone in iraq, so part of me says I'm not qualified to judge... but what I've seen I cannot justify.

So iraq-vets - what are your thoughts?

(please keep it civil, I'd like to listen rather than see a thread lock).

[Nilsen]

Mistakes can be made. They may need higher resolution cameras on not just the apaches but on every system like that. Some of these soldiers may be teens or atleast in their early 20s so that must explain the language one tend to see soldiers use in these kinds of video's.

I was beeing polite and civil about it  

[rpm]

(please keep it civil, I'd like to listen rather than see a thread lock).

I'm pretty sure it's too late for that.

[Dawger]

If you watch the video carefully there are people with weapons in the group. There was a firefight in the vicinity and a US convoy headed that way.

While it is sad that people died I don't really see that the Apache crew did anything other than try to protect their guys from the bad guys.

Apparently, the journalists killed were covering a weightlifting story when they decided to go check out the firefight with armed men in tow.

As for the kids, who brings kids to pick up wounded people? Never mind who brings kids to a spot recently targeted by 30mm gunfire.



If you are disturbed by the language and demeanor used by the crew I would suggest some study of the psychology involved. People who deal with death daily have to develop coping mechanisms simply to survive.

[Kazaa]

As for the journalists, they're in a warzone and they know the risks evolved so it's their own fault. It looks like they are interviewing insurgents in the middle of a courtyard, they could however be security and the journalists are interviewing civilians but I highly doubt it. The way the armed people are postured and handling their weapons is very unprofessional, which leads me to believe that the armed people are indeed "bad guys"

Shooting the unarmed civilians who jumped out of their van to try and retrieve the wounded was messed up. Isn't it a war crime to shoot unarmed civilians? They could have just followed the van and talked the grunts in to intercept it, COPs style! Who the **** brings kids into a warzone anyway? If I had my kids in that van then I would be driving as far away from that place as possible, not driving towards it!!!

The apache gunner was very trigger happy, "Come on, let us shoot! twittle!" Obviously there was only one thought of action going through his mind, which was clouded by pure adrenaline and ignorance of youth.

[bozon]

Shooting the unarmed civilians who jumped out of their van to try and retrieve the wounded was messed up. Isn't it a war crime to shoot unarmed civilians? They could have just followed the van and talked the grunts in to intercept it, COPs style! Who the **** brings kids into a warzone anyway? If I had my kids in that van then I would be driving as far away from that place as possible, not driving towards it!!!

The apache gunner was very trigger happy, "Come on, let us shoot! twittle!" Obviously there was only one thought of action going through his mind, which was clouded by pure adrenaline and ignorance of youth.

Shooting the van was where it became really morally questionable. The first shooting can be attributed to error of judgment, or not.

These things happen all the time. I've seen enough of it during my service. There is a very blurry and thick line that separates right and wrong in this kind of warfare. Unfortunately, wars must be fought by 20 year olds with very poor moral judgment. The world look very different when you are 30+ with a family then it did when you were 20. I remember with shudders the obtuse attitude towards death and suffering of "the other side" and the eagerness to see your weapons at work. I also remember the eagerness to defend your buddies even at the cost of collaterals. There is no "evil" behind it, only moral bluntness.

This video is the sad reality of modern asymmetric warfare. Even if your cause is right, some wrong will come out of it. The public in the US, UK and Europe like to bask in the "high morality" of their troops while criticizing the rest of the world at the same time. They have a very ignorant point of view. I hope the pilots are not too obtuse to not be shocked by their own doings. At least they may develop their moral senses a bit faster then others.

Edit:
To keep the record straight, I am not an Iraq veteran, I am Israeli

[Wolfala]

Haven't seen any video - been ootl. Can someone pm mr and direct me?

[bozon]

Haven't seen any video - been ootl. Can someone pm mr and direct me?

Search for "WikiLeaks posts video from Iraq".
This is the title BBC have decided to give the news report about it. They have also hidden this in the "Americas" section and not in the Middle east section.

[RTHolmes]

dont know why people are surprised by this, its a pretty standard iraq engagement as far as I can tell. the rules of engagement are pretty simple - if you think someone is a bad guy (even if not a direct threat), waste everybody. then when the dust settles and the bodies of women and children are inevitably found, cover it up a fast as possible.

im not an expert on war crimes but i'm betting that waiting for casualties to be evacuated and then killing unarmed paramedics while they try to treat and remove the wounded is probably frowned upon.

btw ive not served, but have as much right as those who have to my opinion.

[MiloMorai]

Could it be possible those that were armed were guards for the journalists.

[rabbidrabbit]

btw ive not served, but have as much right as those who have to my opinion.

Well... that sums up your arrogant and sweeping spit in the face of hundreds of thousands of brave souls who had the courage to step up to the plate and protect your right to denigrate them.

Oh ya...  IBTL

[GFShill]

1) At least two men were armed with long rifles, and one appeared to have a grenade launcher mounted; matching the profiles of insurgents.

2) None were wearing uniforms of any sort; matching the profiles of insurgents.

3) They were in a combat area, without coordinating with local coalition forces; matching the profiles of insurgents.

4) Local US forces were pushing into the area on a combat sweep and the photog was on the enemy's side of the line.

5) Ernie Pyle was smart enough to a) wear a uniform, b) coordinate with local US combat forces, and c) never passed through the lines to the enemy's side of No Man's Land.

I would've shot them, too, in order to protect MY side's ground forces.  It wasn't like the gunner could just open a window and shout out "Hey! Have you guys seen any insurgents around here?"

[CHAPPY]

IN

[Die Hard]

See Rule #4

[gyrene81]

Before this thing gets locked due to the inability of some people to keep things civil.

First, that doesn't sound like a "young twenty something"...close to 30 maybe 28-29...and he is definitely gung ho.

You have to look at these events from the military ground personnel perspective. They are fighting an unknown enemy where any person moving is a potential threat, every vehicle is a bomb, every cell phone is a remote triggering device...even with technological superiority we still lose men on the ground because some young person who doesn't understand the value of life gets talked into walking into a crowded marketplace or police station with a bomb strapped to his chest to blow everyone around him up...the same ignorant goat herding psychopaths who brain wash people into being suicide bombers, plant bombs in cars, inside dead bodies, next to schools, mosques, and anywhere else they can inflict casualties...and it's all for psychological effect. Kill enough people for whatever reason you can call a "just cause" and someone will take notice.

What really puzzles me is that these yellow bellied goat herding terrorist leaders kill more innocent people in a day than the soldiers do in a month...yet the pacifist world wants to condemn the soldiers for their actions...and it was happening around the world before the war...tell those goat herding cave dwellers who are brain washing young people to come out and fight like real men, away from the homes of innocent women and children.