Hey Skuzz, was thinking of u this week end.

[Masherbrum]

In its original condition the car is a vintage racer.  Vintage race cars deserve to be restored to the condition they were originally used in.  It is what defines an "original restoration".

If one choses to update the car to comtemporary standards, it is not longer a restoration.  It is no longer an original.  This has been what separates originals from updates since the inception of the "classic" automobile.

Everything I have about CSX2002 shows this car has not been restored.  It has been updated and no longer carries the value a true restoration would.  However, as a contemporary update, it is nicely done and holds true to much of the history of the family Cobra.

Yep.

[RTHolmes]

I dunno, csx2002 looks pretty much identical to when it raced in the '63 season to me 

its a good example though, "as it left the factory" it was a flat sided MkI body with no wheelarch flares, or indeed engine and transmission or chassis strengthening. lots of work was done to it before it raced in '62, and plenty during the season, and again during off-season. looks to me that for '63 they used the quarter panels from the MkII?

[321BAR]

GT3 is not a compromised or cheaper version of the GT2 at all, its a more track oriented development of the carrera. with a few tweaks it becomes the GT3 RS for even more track bias. a few more tweaks and its a GT3 Cup for single make series racing. couple more tweaks and its a GT3 R for racing in FIA GT3 class. couple more tweaks and its a GT3 RSR for racing in FIA GT2 class.

unlike the GT2, the GT3 has a clear racing development path. I'm not even sure if the GT2 is raced, certainly not in the FIA GT2 class. Ive always wondered what the point of the GT2 is, apart from having a limited numbers uber-911 to sell in the middle east. the name is certainly misleading.

911 GT1 has never been an F1 car, as the name suggests its a LMP-type race car homologated for FIA GT1 class.

really? i guess i was mistaken about the GT1 then. But the fact is though that the comparison between consumer versions of the 911 GT2 and GT3 the GT2 always wins outright. I mean even in fuel consumption it gets 22mpg  
0-60 in a GT3 4.0 seconds. 0-62 in GT2 3.7 seconds.
Top speeds: GT2- 204mph. GT3- 194mph
GT3 fuel consumption- 14 mpg city, 22 highway.
BHP of the GT3- 415 GT2- 523.
curb weights: GT3- 3075 GT2- 3175
GT2's braking is ceramic as standard while the GT3 is optional and both take the active suspension management as standard...
When would i ever need to have a GT3 Cup R or RSR? although i would take a GT3 RS...

Edit: found out where the GT1 raced. it was specifically made for the Le Mans races

[SFRT - Frenchy]

To me Original restoration doesn't have to be when the car was first raced, but how the car was at any moment of her racing career. I surely don't know enought in Cobras to join the argument about what's what, but #16 looks pretty close of the one I posted in black and white previously ... and she does have the hood scoop. We are talking about those first competition Cobras that blew their rear ends right?

In 63 the car already has the scoop and those bottom coolers.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/chassis/photo/CSX2002.html

CSX2002
1978


1982  


I agree with Holmes all the way. But u can't really compare the GT2 and GT3 as to me they are not really the same purpose cars. It's kind of like the "new line" of Mustangs. You have the GT, the Shelby GT, the GT500 and the Super Snake. In parallel u have the racing oriented ones starting by the modest FR500C, FR500S to the full out FR500GT.
To me the Strassenversion ain't a 911 anymore, more like a Carrera GT.

[321BAR]

I agree with Holmes all the way. But u can't really compare the GT2 and GT3 as to me they are not really the same purpose cars. It's kind of like the "new line" of Mustangs. You have the GT, the Shelby GT, the GT500 and the Super Snake. In parallel u have the racing oriented ones starting by the modest FR500C, FR500S to the full out FR500GT.
To me the Strassenversion ain't a 911 anymore, more like a Carrera GT.

But the thing is is that the 911 GT3 and GT2 actually DO have the same purpose. Either in the consumer market or the racing market... Consumers buy it for pleasure, either to have fun showing off or to have fun racing them. And in the racing market both can be tweaked and upgraded to become extremely competitive racers...

[SFRT - Frenchy]

I don't share ur POV, to prove your point you have to list GT2s enrolled in a professional racing serie ... Not 997 GT3s runing a "GT2" class.   

[Die Hard]

"The GT2 and GT2 Evos were initially campaigned in the BPR Global GT Series as well as several other smaller national series, and earned seven wins in their class out of eleven rounds in their first full BPR season in 1996, as well as a class victory in the 24 Hours of Le Mans, and again in 1997. In the new FIA GT Championship that year, although Porsche faced factory-backed competition from Chrysler, the 911 GT2s managed to win three races. By 1998 however, the capabilities of the GT2 were unable to combat the increased number of Dodge/Chrysler Viper GTS-Rs in the series, earning only a sole victory.

By 1999 the GT2s had been overpowered by the Vipers, as well as newcomers Lister, however Roock Racing managed to win the GT2 at the 24 Hours of Daytona. An increase in engine displacement to 3.8 litres in 2000 was unable to help Porsche, and support for the project ended. Porsche chose instead to concentrate on the new N-GT category with the GT3-Rs that same year. GT2s continued to be used by small teams up to 2004.

With the launch of the 996 generation GT2, several privateers attempted to continue on the motorsports history by building their own racing versions. Belgian PSI Motorsports' 911 Bi-Turbo and German A-Level Engineering's 911 GT2-R were used to mix success in national series such as Belcar, but were unable to be successful in international series."

[RTHolmes]

yup

993 GT2 - factory developed and raced in GT2, proper race heritage, homologated roadgoing monster and genuine porsche classic.
996 GT2 - minor race history, not supplied as racecar by factory or raced in GT2, borrows name and rep from 993 GT2.
997 GT2 - no race heritage at all, now 2 generations from genuine GT2, toy for arabs.

[321BAR]

yup

993 GT2 - factory developed and raced in GT2, proper race heritage, homologated roadgoing monster and genuine porsche classic.
996 GT2 - minor race history, not supplied as racecar by factory or raced in GT2, borrows name and rep from 993 GT2.
997 GT2 - no race heritage at all, now 2 generations from genuine GT2, toy for arabs.

true but this still does not show how the GT2 is or is not better than the GT3 for the casual consumer

[Masherbrum]

true but this still does not show how the GT2 is or is not better than the GT3 for the casual consumer

Exactly.

[Masherbrum]

"The GT2 and GT2 Evos were initially campaigned in the BPR Global GT Series as well as several other smaller national series, and earned seven wins in their class out of eleven rounds in their first full BPR season in 1996, as well as a class victory in the 24 Hours of Le Mans, and again in 1997. In the new FIA GT Championship that year, although Porsche faced factory-backed competition from Chrysler, the 911 GT2s managed to win three races. By 1998 however, the capabilities of the GT2 were unable to combat the increased number of Dodge/Chrysler Viper GTS-Rs in the series, earning only a sole victory.

By 1999 the GT2s had been overpowered by the Vipers, as well as newcomers Lister, however Roock Racing managed to win the GT2 at the 24 Hours of Daytona. An increase in engine displacement to 3.8 litres in 2000 was unable to help Porsche, and support for the project ended. Porsche chose instead to concentrate on the new N-GT category with the GT3-Rs that same year. GT2s continued to be used by small teams up to 2004.

With the launch of the 996 generation GT2, several privateers attempted to continue on the motorsports history by building their own racing versions. Belgian PSI Motorsports' 911 Bi-Turbo and German A-Level Engineering's 911 GT2-R were used to mix success in national series such as Belcar, but were unable to be successful in international series."

I don't know what source you've quoted, but the Vette's did a lot more "dominating" than the Vipers.   

[321BAR]

I don't know what source you've quoted, but the Vette's did a lot more "dominating" than the Vipers.   

true... but i'd still like to stick myself inside a competition coupe viper   either that or a Zr1... btw is it true Dodge is discontinuing the Vipers?

[Die Hard]

I don't know what source you've quoted, but the Vette's did a lot more "dominating" than the Vipers.   

It's that staple of truth and all things fact... Wikipedia.