Author Topic: A Good Thing?  (Read 1162 times)

Offline gyrene81

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Re: A Good Thing?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2010, 09:27:19 AM »
You might want to read a bit more about the Big Bang theory and the data supporting it before you babble like that....
You assume I haven't...and I'm not babbling...until it can be proven beyond doubt, it's still as much speculation as evolution...wasn't that long ago it was believed that the sun orbited the earth...the moon was made of cheese and there were martians on Mars...millenia after stone age and bronze age civilizations had figured out differently.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: A Good Thing?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2010, 12:44:22 PM »
You assume I haven't...and I'm not babbling...until it can be proven beyond doubt, it's still as much speculation as evolution...wasn't that long ago it was believed that the sun orbited the earth...the moon was made of cheese and there were martians on Mars...millenia after stone age and bronze age civilizations had figured out differently.
Ok, so you're a know nothing who doesn't understand the scientific process.

FYI, evolution has stronger evidence than the law of gravity.  Theory is as good as it gets in science.  Laws are not the same.  What a layman calls a theory, a scientist calls a hypothesis.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: A Good Thing?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2010, 01:16:49 PM »
Ok, so you're a know nothing who doesn't understand the scientific process.

FYI, evolution has stronger evidence than the law of gravity.  Theory is as good as it gets in science.  Laws are not the same.  What a layman calls a theory, a scientist calls a hypothesis.
Actually, it's obvious you don't understand scientific process...theory is not as good as it gets in science...if it were, nothing we do in modern civilization would be happening. Every theory looks good on paper, but it takes repetitive testing with the exact same results to determine if it is correct...that is why you see theories changing. What you see and obviously base your erroneous judgment on is the theories that have undergone peer...and even then they are not actually accepted as fact...merely accepted as a hypothesis that can be tested with the same results. When a theory can be proven as fact, it ceases to be a theory...quantum physics, quantum mechanics, quantum math are all "theoretical" science discplines...developing theories and testing them against the laws.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Penguin

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Re: A Good Thing?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2010, 02:48:32 PM »
You assume I haven't...and I'm not babbling...until it can be proven beyond doubt, it's still as much speculation as evolution...wasn't that long ago it was believed that the sun orbited the earth...the moon was made of cheese and there were martians on Mars...millenia after stone age and bronze age civilizations had figured out differently.

And I assume that your point can and has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, gained a scientific consencus, and provided massive quantities of data and explaination?  No, I didn't think so.  Now let's not get into a debate on Evolution, or else we all might end up getting a vacation.

Finally, 3 bad points don't make a good one.  Right now, I'm this | | close to launching on a tirade about evolution, but I can let Moray or any other biology teacher/ ist handle that.

-Penguin

Offline gyrene81

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Re: A Good Thing?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2010, 03:40:00 PM »
And I assume that your point can and has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, gained a scientific consencus, and provided massive quantities of data and explaination?  No, I didn't think so.
Quite the contrary...it is a statement made, proven and accepted by the scientific community...

Theory:
1. a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena
2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

Fact:
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth
2. something known to exist or to have happened
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true




Finally, 3 bad points don't make a good one.  Right now, I'm this | | close to launching on a tirade about evolution, but I can let Moray or any other biology teacher/ ist handle that.

-Penguin
If you really feel compelled to do so, I'm not stopping you...I know how genetic mutation a la natural selection due to multiple factors, which is fact, fits into the theory as it sits right now...and it's not the wild eyed beliefs that many have glomed onto. Scentists admit the speculative nature of the theory (as well as many others) based on the lack of some hard evidence and it's the laypeople who see only the unprovable aspects of the theory as fact...which is a complete diservice to the theory. It has merits and it has offered excellent explanations to many phenomenon within nature...it is a valuable tool in which to further explore the changes within life on this planet...but no fish is going to change it's genus to homo.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Penguin

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Re: A Good Thing?
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2010, 03:57:52 PM »
Quite the contrary...it is a statement made, proven and accepted by the scientific community...

Theory:
1. a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena
2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

Fact:
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth
2. something known to exist or to have happened
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true



If you really feel compelled to do so, I'm not stopping you...I know how genetic mutation a la natural selection due to multiple factors, which is fact, fits into the theory as it sits right now...and it's not the wild eyed beliefs that many have glomed onto. Scentists admit the speculative nature of the theory (as well as many others) based on the lack of some hard evidence and it's the laypeople who see only the unprovable aspects of the theory as fact...which is a complete diservice to the theory. It has merits and it has offered excellent explanations to many phenomenon within nature...it is a valuable tool in which to further explore the changes within life on this planet...but no fish is going to change it's genus to homo.

Hmm, you seem to be missing something on fact... aha, here it is.

4.) Confirmed Observation

Notice how many facts there are, and how few laws and theories, and in some parts of science, there are no laws, since there is just too much case by case study to be done.  Conversely, thermodynamics has many laws.

Theories are more important than laws because they explain things.  Furthermore, of course a fish wouldn't do that, since homo is a sub-set of primate.  First, it would need to become an amphibian, then a lizard, and finally develop, after a billion years or so, into a primate, then millions of years later, a man.

Theories remain as theories even when they are proven to be true, they just gain that extra title, because if you could find something that was wrong and prove that that problem existed, we would change it.  Laws apply to more specific areas than theories, which give explaination.  Theories aren't tested against laws, hypotheses are, theories explain the laws and how they fit together to make this big hot mess called the universe run.

Finally, the number 2 on Theory, that doesn't seem to work, as electricity would fall into something of conjecture.  Number 1 is correct, Number 2 has some holes that need to be patched.  What you are looking at in number two, is a half-way tested hypothesis. 


No hard-feelings in this debate, if you please?  :aok
-Penguin


Offline gyrene81

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Re: A Good Thing?
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2010, 04:38:21 PM »
No hard-feelings in this debate, if you please?  :aok
-Penguin
LOL...but of course sir. Are we officially hijacking this theoretical thread?  :D
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Penguin

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Re: A Good Thing?
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2010, 04:39:14 PM »
Yeah, hold on a sec, I'll make a new topic for us to debate in.

-Penguin