M4 76's front armor too strong?

[Spikes]

Had a point blank shot on a M4A3 76 in a Tiger today hit him twice in the hull with the good hit sprite and nothing...turned his turret and popped me one shot...

No I don't have film I was P/O'ed and didn't save it.

The hull armor deal has affected me more than this time as well...it's happened to me on several occasions where the 76 will just shrug it off.

[Lusche]

You could test it offline and film it. If you find results strange or questionable you could then present the film.

[Spikes]

When I tried that the tank dies instantly...very strange however. It almost seems like offline tanks die easier.

[guncrasher]

I have survived anywhere from 4 to 7 hits from panzers, m4's many times while in the m4 75. But yet I can usually kill one with one shot in same tank by hitting on the driver position.  anywhere else it takes more than 1 shot.  Lots of people have said it is bs that the new m4's can survive so many hits and I agree.

semp

[THRASH99]

Had a point blank shot on a M4A3 76 in a Tiger today hit him twice in the hull with the good hit sprite and nothing...turned his turret and popped me one shot...

No I don't have film I was P/O'ed and didn't save it.

The hull armor deal has affected me more than this time as well...it's happened to me on several occasions where the 76 will just shrug it off.

Had the same problem when I took a T-34/85 and hit them with an HVAP round to the front of the turret. Instead of killing the tank, it just disabled the turret which was stupid. So I jumped into an M4 76 and get hit once in the turret, boom, it knocks out of turret instead of killing me. Looks like the M4 76 is yet again screwed up thanks to the last update.

[Spikes]

Well it's not even killing the turret...it's just shrugging it off. I hit him twice, while I was reloading it casually turned his turret and popped me.

[Lusche]

Well it's not even killing the turret...it's just shrugging it off. I hit him twice, while I was reloading it casually turned his turret and popped me.

The question is: Where did you hit him? Particularly on the turret, a few inches can make all the difference. To bad we do not have a film. It's very had to tell from memory, where exactly the shot hit, what angle of impact, and which range. More than once I thought I have seen "this" while afterwards the film viewer showed me otherwise

Make it a habit to roll film. You can always cancel the film at the end or clean out your folder later.

[Spikes]

I was rolling film but I'm accustomed to canceling it and that's what I did.  I jsut did it in offline again and every shot from the same position was a kill shot...but in the MA it's not like that...ever.

Here's an image of where I shot and at what range.
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s162/spikesx/ahss91.jpg

[THRASH99]

The question is: Where did you hit him? Particularly on the turret, a few inches can make all the difference. To bad we do not have a film. It's very had to tell from memory, where exactly the shot hit, what angle of impact, and which range. More than once I thought I have seen "this" while afterwards the film viewer showed me otherwise

Make it a habit to roll film. You can always cancel the film at the end or clean out your folder later.

But it doesn't matter where he hit him, if he's in a Tiger 88mm will kill any tank at any range, no matter where it lands. Especially M4's which had the thinest armor and usually died in one shot from Tiger in real life

[Lusche]

But it doesn't matter where he hit him, if he's in a Tiger 88mm will kill any tank at any range, no matter where it lands. Especially M4's which had the thinest armor and usually died in one shot from Tiger in real life

Sorry, but that's just two plainly wrong statements. That's schoolyard hearsay knowledge at best. The typical eternally perpetuated myth with not much facts in it.

[guncrasher]

Yup listen to the myth of tiger gunners that would come back with hundreds of hits but alive.  Or the t34 drvers that were taught the best way to stop tiger was by crashing into it.


Semp

[Lusche]

Yup listen to the myth of tiger gunners that would come back with hundreds of hits but alive.  

Does that mean a tiger gun will kill any tank at any range no matter where it lands? Nope. That's just complete bolloks.

You guys really have to stop to take individual anecdotic accounts and produce extremely overgeneralized and wrong statements.

With you logic, I could claim "some 109 pilots did kill hundreds of enemies - the Me 109 was superior to all fighters and would always shoot them all down."

Tiger rounds did ricochet of simply fail to penetrate, depending on range  armor thickness, sloping  and shot placement.  The Tiger was a fearsome enemy, but not the "awasome invincile supertank" of newspapers, movies or cheap TV shows.




And if you would really look at the armor thickness values of WWII tanks you would notice that the M4A3 did not have "thin armor" at all.

[guncrasher]

what I said is that tiger tanks would come back from the front with hundred of hits on its hulls but alive.  and they were not a one shot road kill like they are here.  T34 found the easiest way to disable tigers was to ram them in place while the infantry took care of the crew.

semp

[Lusche]

what I said is that tiger tanks would come back from the front with hundred of hits on its hulls but alive. 

Please show me one example of a Tiger surviving hundreds of hits.


 

and they were not a one shot road kill like they are here. 

Ever thought that's the result of completely different tactis & battlefield conditions? Tigers could & were killed in one shot under right circumstances. Look up armor penetration data for guns like the 76mm on the M4A3(76w), The Sherman Firefly, the T-34/85, SU-100... even the source I presented above should give you a clue.

 

T34 found the easiest way to disable tigers was to ram them in place while the infantry took care of the crew.

Source? WHich T-34? What time in the war? Which battle, under which conditions? Why should a T-34/85 ram a Tiger when he can penetrate the armor?


This whole mix of myths, exaggerations and mixed up facts is hilarious at times... but as this is the bug report forum, I'm out here. But I recommend reading books.. and not just that kind filled with selective anecdotes and no hard data.

Snailman out.

[321BAR]

T34 crews DID ram tigers in WWII in order to stop the 88mm gun from the ability to rotate. but they did not do this as a main tactic to disable tigers.