Combat trim question

[HatTrick]

I'm curious, how do most people use this?  All the time, not at all, off and on?  Does it depend on the plane you're flying? 

I've been using it the last few days pretty much all the time and while it saves me the trouble of having to constantly monkey with my trim knobs, I don't feel like I have the same control of the aircraft and can't maneuver to the same degree.  Maybe it's all in my head though, not sure as I'm too new to the game.  I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of the vets that have been around awhile though.

[Ghosth]

All of the above.

At times, not at all, if I can tell by the "feel" that things are wonky, I'll often cycle CT on and off quick like.
Thus reseting trim closer to optimal for the speed and alt that I am currently at.

Best of all worlds in many respects is to manual trim all the time.
However that adds significantly to pilot workload. And it helps to have really good hardware with lots of bells and whistles that you can map to trim.

[BaldEagl]

I use it on climb out and my flight to wherever I'm going.  Once I'm in at the fight/target I usually turn it off and trim manually as needed then flip it on then off to recalibrate to my new speed.  When I'm just travelling again I'll turn it back on.  Also, in uncontested flight I often use rudder and aileron trim to make course corrections.  If I do this CT turns off so I'll turn it back on after I've made my course correction.

[HatTrick]

Am I right in my impression that the combat trim limits your turning ability or am I just dreaming?

[BaldEagl]

Am I right in my impression that the combat trim limits your turning ability or am I just dreaming?

You're dreaming.  Trim does nothing to improve or limit turning ability.  Your elevators can only deflect to maximum deflection and the trim tabs deflect in the opposite direction to release pressure on the stick aiding in moving the control surface in the desired direction.

CT will however try to force the nose to lift in a high speed dive in some planes or allow others to speed to control stiffness or compression.  In either case you want to trim manually to retain control of the nose, then re-engage CT once you're done to get everything in trim again.

[bozon]

Am I right in my impression that the combat trim limits your turning ability or am I just dreaming?

Yes and no.

What CT will do is adjust your trim for level flight at your current speed according to a calibration table. In practice this means that if you hold the stick constant and the plane slows down (constant turning for example) CT will continuously trim up increasing your turn - equivalent to manual trim and pulling more and more on the stick. On the other side of the speed scale, if you go very fast (say, in a dive) it will continuously trim you down making pullout less effective. On some planes like the P-38 and 109s, diving with CT on can be dangerous.

I prefer to use it as a "fast trim" mechanism. Turn on and off when trim bothers me, but I can't be bothered to trim manually. Never leave CT on when you do dive bombing - trim nose down before you start your dive, but not all the way, so you can still pull out of it.

[Soulyss]

What CT will do is adjust your trim for level flight at your current speed according to a calibration table. In practice this means that if you hold the stick constant and the plane slows down (constant turning for example) CT will continuously trim up increasing your turn - equivalent to manual trim and pulling more and more on the stick.

I'm not sure if I read this part of the statement correctly, but adding positive/up trim in a turn will not improve turn performance. 

To speak to the OP question, I fly the 38's for the most part and in that particular ride I find CT to be more of a problem than a benefit if left on.  Occasionally I will toggle it on and off if somehow my trim get's out of whack, but if it's early in my sortie (ie I haven't had a chance to get one of my engines shots out yet) the only trim that I have to worry about it elevator and that's easy enough to adjust manually on the fly in most cases.  I find that CT makes it harder for my to control the nose at low speeds, particularly when I'm nose high.  That being said I know of a couple 38 jockey's that I believe do use CT and are quite effective.

In other planes I tend to toggle CT as well but I do it more frequently or I'll leave it on until I start to get very slow or very fast cause, again I find it a little easier to control the nose w/out it on but that is my personal preference and someone else may not have the same issues I do.

[bozon]

I'm not sure if I read this part of the statement correctly, but adding positive/up trim in a turn will not improve turn performance. 

Indeed you seem to miss-read it, perhaps because I didn't emphasize that it does affect the maximum turn you can get. The effect I was talking about is that without noticing, as the plane slows down, CT mimics the effect of pulling more and more on the stick even though I hold it steady. I find it tends to make me loose the feel for what I do and waste more E because of that. Nothing critical though.

[Traveler]

I fly the P38 exclusively.  I always fly with Auto trim on.  I have never found it to be a problem .  I do prolonged dives from 18K or better.  I do High Speed and Low speed work and I never think about trim.  It always on .  I don’t find a problem with controlling airspeed in dives.  It does a much better job of keeping the aircraft in trim then I would ever do in this game.

[The Fugitive]

I find that the 38 will get "stuck" in the air at the top of a prolonged rope. If I think I might have to push it and get to 50 or below I will toggle it off so I get full control and can flip my 38 over with ease. For the most part I find I have better control with it off when I'm slow.

[Ack-Ack]

In flap dependent planes like the P-38 and Ki-84, Combat Trim is more of a hindrance than a benefit.  There is a reason why it is recommended that those that fly flap dependent planes do so without Combat Trim enabled.


ack-ack

[TequilaChaser]

What CT will do is adjust your trim for level flight at your current speed according to a calibration table. In practice this means that if you hold the stick constant and the plane slows down (constant turning for example) CT will continuously trim up

In flap dependent planes like the P-38 and Ki-84, Combat Trim is more of a hindrance than a benefit.  There is a reason why it is recommended that those that fly flap dependent planes do so without Combat Trim enabled.

ack-ack

Ghosth, Bozon & ack-ack have covered it pretty much, but I want to add.....

I would also add some of the following planes: F4U, P51, P40, C202, F6f, Fm2/F4F, P47, 109 series  in to those planes considered as flap dependent......

as already stated, the Combat Trim feature of the game is utilizing "pre-set Level Flight Speeds", within a "pre-determined Speed/Trim Calibration Table".... this table does not take in to account any individual plane, or individual plane's Flap settings. It only recognizes at what speed that particular plane is flying at

( NOTE: IT ONLY RECOGNIZES AT WHAT SPEED THAT PARTICULAR PLANE IS FLYING AT AND THINKS THE PLANE IS IN LEVEL FLIGHT )

and automatically trims that plane to that particular speed table....... but it goes even further than that........ the  Combat Trim feature does not "TRIM" at very slow speeds or very fast speeds....... I personally believe from my own experience that Combat Trim ( CT ) will not have any helpful impact at speeds under 130 IAS and speeds over 430 IAS for most of the plane set.......

Lephturn's article found here: http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/trim/trim.htm

suggest that Combat Trim ( CT ) has no beneficial effects on speeds below 150 IAS or speeds above 400 IAS........ these are safe numbers to remember / follow, although from my experience playing the game, a close in dogfight ( KNIFE FIGHT ) one will find themselves well below 150 IAS, and thus, the reason I say it is closer to 130 IAS...

the only drawback to this is, for example,.......I myself will sometimes engage "Combat Trim" (CT) when in a Knife Fight with a "same type" aircraft  ( example, a Duel or in a KOTH tournament ) when I see that I am drawing near a stalemate and neither of us are gaining or losing angles to each other.... at times / fights like these, one starts to look for any possible advantage they might be able to obtain or to at least stay on equal footing......


hope this helps

[mtnman]

I'm curious, how do most people use this?  All the time, not at all, off and on?  Does it depend on the plane you're flying? 

I've been using it the last few days pretty much all the time and while it saves me the trouble of having to constantly monkey with my trim knobs, I don't feel like I have the same control of the aircraft and can't maneuver to the same degree.  Maybe it's all in my head though, not sure as I'm too new to the game.  I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of the vets that have been around awhile though.

I fly the F4U's exclusively for the most part.  I use CT for all "general" flying, and "low key" fights.  If the fight starts getting to the extremes of speed (<150, >450), or into flaps maneuvers, or into vertical roping-type flight, I shut off the CT and go to manual trim.

I also shut it off and go to manual for landing (so I don't need to fight the CT) and/or if I'm damaged and need to trim for that.

I use the X52, and have my trim mapped to the rotary dials, so I have my manual trim pre-set.  I switch off the CT, and the trim goes to where I have it ptre-set.  I also have small marks on the dials, so I can make sure the rotary dials are where I want them.  It's not that hard to tweak them a bit here and there too.

[HatTrick]

I fly the F4U's exclusively for the most part.  I use CT for all "general" flying, and "low key" fights.  If the fight starts getting to the extremes of speed (<150, >450), or into flaps maneuvers, or into vertical roping-type flight, I shut off the CT and go to manual trim.

I also shut it off and go to manual for landing (so I don't need to fight the CT) and/or if I'm damaged and need to trim for that.

I use the X52, and have my trim mapped to the rotary dials, so I have my manual trim pre-set.  I switch off the CT, and the trim goes to where I have it ptre-set.  I also have small marks on the dials, so I can make sure the rotary dials are where I want them.  It's not that hard to tweak them a bit here and there too.

That pretty much describes how I fly and the plane I fly to a tee.  Last couple of days though I've been trying to fly on manual the whole way just to try it.

[Zygote404]

In my experience elevator trim does help you to turn faster.  Take a plane up and turn it till it slows enough ur not getting the blackout visual.  Then dial in elevator trim, you will see a return to blackout graphics for a bit. 

Its my understanding that on p38's the trim was rudimentary, on planes like some 109's, some trim functions were missing (elevators), on other planes they had full set of trim. 

I could be wrong but I think the trim surfaces were smaller, which is why your able to deploy them when the main control surfaces are compressed.