Author Topic: Plane vs Plane Thread  (Read 8366 times)

Offline Plazus

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2868
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #75 on: October 31, 2010, 09:22:54 PM »
More seriously than my first one: Mosquito Mk VI vs Bf110G-2.

The Mosquito will win this one, given that both pilots know their planes' limitations well. The mossie can out-run, out-accelerate, and out-climb the Bf110G-2. Roll rate is about equal and the 110 can easily out-turn the mossie in the horizontal. Using its strengths, and exploiting the 110's weaknesses, the mossie pilot will want to hold his E and maintain a perch over the 110 pilot's head. From that position, the mossie can dictate the terms of the fight and shoot down the 110.

How about the P51B vs Yak9T? Both are co-alt and co-e.
Plazus
80th FS "Headhunters"

Axis vs Allies

Offline Spikes

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15724
    • Twitch: Twitch Feed
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #76 on: October 31, 2010, 10:22:18 PM »
234 vs anything? 234 wins.
i7-12700k | Gigabyte Z690 GAMING X | 64GB G.Skill DDR4 | EVGA 1080ti FTW3 | H150i Capellix

FlyKommando.com

Offline Muzzy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #77 on: October 31, 2010, 10:29:39 PM »
Well just to chime in on a couple of points..

It is quite possible for piloting skill to overcome plane performance (I'm happy to say I've done it myself even though I'm not the best pilot) and the discussions in this thread can always be trumped by that argument.  However, besides being fun and interesting, the idea was to give pilots suggestions on how to improve their tactics by understanding the capabilities of different aircraft.  Again, there are no clear cut answers, but knowing the performance and capabilities of other aircraft can, IMHO, give you a certain edge in combat.  It may not be enough to win a fight every time, but at least you will have a basic idea of how to approach a fight given the matchups listed.  This is basically a "know your enemy, know yourself and you will triumph in a thousand battles" idea.  If you know what your plane is capable of, and you know what your enemy's plane can do, you stand a better chance of success.


CO 111 Sqdn Black Arrows

Wng Cdr, No. 2 Tactical Bomber Group, RAF, "Today's Target" Scenario. "You maydie, but you will not be bored!"

Offline JunkyII

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8428
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2010, 06:44:14 AM »
The Mosquito will win this one, given that both pilots know their planes' limitations well. The mossie can out-run, out-accelerate, and out-climb the Bf110G-2. Roll rate is about equal and the 110 can easily out-turn the mossie in the horizontal. Using its strengths, and exploiting the 110's weaknesses, the mossie pilot will want to hold his E and maintain a perch over the 110 pilot's head. From that position, the mossie can dictate the terms of the fight and shoot down the 110.

How about the P51B vs Yak9T? Both are co-alt and co-e.
51B pilot easily gains the yak Ts six and fight ends in 3 turns....I think a better fight would be thee bravo vs a yak u.


I actually had a Mossie vs 110G2 fight in the DA with a squaddie last night. Mossie has an awesome rudder which can make the plane quite forgiving while going for snapshots.

We got into rolling scissors and the mossie just dictated the fight, he had to try and get out but its hard for a Mossie to miss especially in a close fight.
DFC Member
Proud Member of Pigs on the Wing
"Yikes"

Offline Heinrich Ehrler

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #79 on: November 06, 2010, 09:09:20 AM »
Co-alt, Co-E             

F4U-1A v. 109K4



Offline Muzzy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #80 on: November 06, 2010, 10:09:13 AM »
I will defer to hog and K4 experts on this one, but....

K4: use climb rate to gain E-advantage then do the tater thingy.

F4U1A: Hide and pray it doesn't find you. :pray  

Okay, if that doesn't work, take it down to the deck throw out flaps and go to zeke mode, try to out-turn it.

190A5 vs. P51D
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 10:11:21 AM by Muzzy »


CO 111 Sqdn Black Arrows

Wng Cdr, No. 2 Tactical Bomber Group, RAF, "Today's Target" Scenario. "You maydie, but you will not be bored!"

Offline StokesAk

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3665
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #81 on: November 06, 2010, 10:13:54 AM »
51 because it can turn, and its faster if the 190 runs.
Strokes

Offline Heinrich Ehrler

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #82 on: November 06, 2010, 10:20:06 AM »
I will defer to hog and K4 experts on this one, but....

K4: use climb rate to gain E-advantage then do the tater thingy.

F4U1A: Hide and pray it doesn't find you. :pray  

Okay, if that doesn't work, take it down to the deck throw out flaps and go to zeke mode, try to out-turn it.

190A5 vs. P51D

From the 190A5 perspective: You can't out run nor out turn. You can, however, out roll,out dive, and out climb to a point. I would dive to the deck and but the bogey on my six. From there, execute a rolling scissors maneuver and get the snap shot.

From the 51's perspective: It's your fight to lose, stay fast and B'n'Z back and forth. If you need to, reset the fight.

Offline fbWldcat

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2970
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #83 on: November 06, 2010, 12:02:27 PM »
Okay, I guess I'll put out the next match-up

Spitfire Mk 16 v. 109 K-4
Landing is overrated.
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I: I took the one less traveled by." - Robert Frost
"Uncommon valor was a common virtue." <S>

Offline FLOTSOM

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2822
      • http://www.myspace.com/prfctstrngr
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #84 on: November 06, 2010, 12:58:38 PM »
Okay, I guess I'll put out the next match-up

Spitfire Mk 16 v. 109 K-4

oh that's easy!!!!

FLOTSOM TAKES THE K4 up to the stratosphere and annoys the hell out of the stargazing spixteen until it chases him. FLOTSOM then dives dragging the very annoyed spixteen Jockey down from the heavens and back to earth. when the spixteen Jockey realizes that he has been brought down so low chasing this annoying K4 it angers him greatly and with his blood boiling he is now intent upon killing this impetuous K4. the spixteen Jockey in his rage develops a severe case of target fixation and is thus blinded to the 1 to 5 Muppet's in K4's lining up on his 6. the other Muppet's, being fair sportsman, wait until just after the spixteen Jockey has managed to blast holes through every possible surface off FLOTSOM's K4 and causing said K4 to tumble earth bound without wings tail engine or clear windshield due to blood and oil spray. at the moment just before the spixteen Jockey gets to see the name of the annoying and now most assuredly dead K4 pilot BOOOOOM he takes a tater to the rectum and finds himself sitting in the tower wondering......WHAT THE F&%$K!?! then he sees it "(Muppet of choice) has shot you down"

thus proving the K4 when flown properly will always win out against the spixteen!

Brewster v. I16
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 01:16:00 PM by FLOTSOM »
FLOTSOM

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!
Quote from Skuzzy
"The game is designed to encourage combat, not hide from it."
http://www.myspace.com/prfctstrngr

Offline fbWldcat

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2970
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #85 on: November 06, 2010, 01:39:36 PM »
Uber v. Tuber

This is what I saw :devil

The Brewster pretty much just has to turn and keep the I-16 in check until he gets a shot.

The I-16 has to conserve E and play it smart, don't turn with the Brewster and wait for quick shots.
Landing is overrated.
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I: I took the one less traveled by." - Robert Frost
"Uncommon valor was a common virtue." <S>

Offline Muzzy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #86 on: November 08, 2010, 09:53:55 AM »
oh that's easy!!!!

FLOTSOM TAKES THE K4 up to the stratosphere and annoys the hell out of the stargazing spixteen until it chases him. FLOTSOM then dives dragging the very annoyed spixteen Jockey down from the heavens and back to earth. when the spixteen Jockey realizes that he has been brought down so low chasing this annoying K4 it angers him greatly and with his blood boiling he is now intent upon killing this impetuous K4. the spixteen Jockey in his rage develops a severe case of target fixation and is thus blinded to the 1 to 5 Muppet's in K4's lining up on his 6. the other Muppet's, being fair sportsman, wait until just after the spixteen Jockey has managed to blast holes through every possible surface off FLOTSOM's K4 and causing said K4 to tumble earth bound without wings tail engine or clear windshield due to blood and oil spray. at the moment just before the spixteen Jockey gets to see the name of the annoying and now most assuredly dead K4 pilot BOOOOOM he takes a tater to the rectum and finds himself sitting in the tower wondering......WHAT THE F&%$K!?! then he sees it "(Muppet of choice) has shot you down"

thus proving the K4 when flown properly will always win out against the spixteen!

Brewster v. I16

Or you could just shoot the guy, Flotsom.  

FM2 vs Seafire.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 09:55:30 AM by Muzzy »


CO 111 Sqdn Black Arrows

Wng Cdr, No. 2 Tactical Bomber Group, RAF, "Today's Target" Scenario. "You maydie, but you will not be bored!"

Offline FLOTSOM

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2822
      • http://www.myspace.com/prfctstrngr
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #87 on: November 08, 2010, 10:07:51 AM »
Or you could just shoot the guy, Flotsom. 

What?!?!?!?! shoot them???? as in do it myself?!?!?!?!?! well thats just plain wrong!!!!!!! ask any Muppet!!! they are training me real good!!!! and they always say that a good squaddie clears your six, a great squaddie clears your 12!!!!!!! so you see as i have only great squaddies there is never a reason for me to have to shoot anyone ever!

besides they (especially JETSOM and Grizz) are always complaining that they are in need of practice to improve thier aim so what kind of squaddie would i be if i didnt give them every opertunity to practice and improve thier skills? i am hoping though that one of these days they get good enough to actually clear my 6 before the enemy get the chance to shoot off my wings and kill my engine........but i got a feeling its gonna take years of practice before they are anywhere near that level of talented! (again especially JETSOM and Grizz)

now back to my question!!!

Brewster v. I16!?
FLOTSOM

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!
Quote from Skuzzy
"The game is designed to encourage combat, not hide from it."
http://www.myspace.com/prfctstrngr

Offline MjTalon

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2587
      • 82nd FG Home
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2010, 09:17:41 AM »
Here's a decent matchup I'd like to get some good feedback on:

FW190A-5 vs P-38J

Co Alt, 190 has the E advantage.
 :cheers:

S.A.P.P.
Cavalier - 82nd F.G
Group Commanding Officer

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Plane vs Plane Thread
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2010, 01:06:54 PM »
In short, pilots being equal the P-38 will come out on top.  The only real threat is in a rolling scissors where the FW 190A-5 can potentially use it's better roll rate to force the P-38 to squeeze out front.  However, the P-38 pilot, if he spots it quick enough can use its superior slow speed handling to stay behind the FW190A-5 as the A-5 tries to force the P-38 out in front.  If the P-38 driver manages to stay in back in a low speed rolling scissors, there is nothing the A-5 can really do to reverse positions as he'll not be able to match the P-38s low speed handling and at best can hope to roll the plane out of plane to throw off the aim and shots of the Lightning or hope the Lightning pilot makes a mistake that leads to him crashing.

In a match where the A-5 has an energy advantage, the fight will always favor the plane with the advantage regardless of plane type.  As long as the FW 190A-5 uses proper BnZ attacks (by proper I mean aggressive BnZ, not this hand holding, limp wristed incorrect idea of BnZ that some people think means to run half a sector /rant off) and keeps up the pressure as to not allow the P-38 to regain any energy after the break turns, the A-5 should come out on top.  However, if the A-5 driver becomes impatient during the BnZ passes and tries to force an angles engagement, the A-5 is going to die.  Also, it is important that the A-5 driver maintains his advantage at all times and doesn't fall for the trap that just because he has more energy at the moment, doesn't mean he's got the fight won.  Pretty much all of the dedicated, experienced P-38 drivers will use vertical breaks instread of break turns.  What I mean by vertical breaks is that the P-38 driver will use the vertical to avoid, while at the same time meeting the BnZ attacker's pass.  This allows the P-38 driver to gain altitude on each pass as they break to avoid the BnZ attack while at the same time "putting energy in the bank" to use later on.  After a few passes, the P-38 driver will usually have equalized that altitude advantage the A-5 enjoyed though the A-5 will still have the slight energy advantage from his BnZ pass but the P-38 has the "potential" energy advantage because he's now at a higher altitude than the A-5 and can spend that altitude for energy at any time, effectively reversing positions and now in the driver's seat.  Only option at this point is for the A-5 to try and run home because if he enters into the vertical, the P-38 will kill him.  If he tries to turn at this point, the P-38 will kill him.  If he dives and run, he might be able to escape long enough to find help from friendlies or cover from his acks.  If he doesn't find safety, the P-38 will dive down and kill the A-5.



ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song