Angela Merkel

[VonMessa]

So put up or shut up?

I'm going to:

Move to Australia (illegally)

Get a job

Not pay taxes on the wages I earn

Possibly get hurt (or in some way need the services of a hospital Emergency room)

NEVER EVER pay that bill that I incurred at the hospital (not one red cent)

Send the (non-taxed) money I make to another country so it doesn't even get SPENT in Australia

Would Chopper Reid approve?

Let's all just hold hands and sing Depeche Mode songs.  That will solve the problem...

 

[CAP1]

so we got it...you're ok with the illegals......

[Vudak]

Just want to remind all of you that are supporting the concept of illegal immigrants that you are SUPPORTING the violation of federal law. Welcome to level of street scum, thugs, drug dealers and murderers. Enjoy your stay in the moral cesspool!

Not that it really applies to this particular topic (illegal immigration), Serenity, but do keep in mind that much of federal law is unconstitutional, so by supporting much of it, you're actually breaking that oath of enlistment you took:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"

It's not all black or white, regardless of what your superiors need you to believe.

[CAP1]

Not that it really applies to this particular topic (illegal immigration), Serenity, but do keep in mind that much of federal law is unconstitutional, so by supporting much of it, you're actually breaking that oath of enlistment you took:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"

It's not all black or white, regardless of what your superiors need you to believe.

is it unconstitutional to stop people from illegally entering the country?

[captain1ma]

she hit it right on the nose, and we should take example from it. when i visit germany, i speak german, i dont expect everyone to speak english! in france they speak french, so here should they learn our language and be assimilated or go back home!

[VonMessa]

Not that it really applies to this particular topic (illegal immigration), Serenity, but do keep in mind that much of federal law is unconstitutional, so by supporting much of it, you're actually breaking that oath of enlistment you took:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"

It's not all black or white, regardless of what your superiors need you to believe.

Taking things out of context, adding to them or leaving parts out is never in good form when debating....

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God

That is the full oath  of enlistment in the US Armed Forces

[CAP1]

Taking things out of context, adding to them or leaving parts out is never in good form when debating....

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God

That is the full oath  of enlistment in the US Armed Forces

now here's the biggie......what if the presidents orders go against the constitution? 

[VonMessa]

now here's the biggie......what if the presidents orders go against the constitution? 

Depends what the UCMJ says about it....   

[Vudak]

Taking things out of context, adding to them or leaving parts out is never in good form when debating....

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God

That is the full oath  of enlistment in the US Armed Forces

Putting it completely in context doesn't change my point, or do anything for his.  That's why I snipped it.  His oath is still to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.  If a federal law is unconstitutional, I wouldn't go calling people who fight against it the scum of society.  They're doing his job.

Cap - for someone who has already tried to insult my intelligence, you aren't keeping up with me very well:

Not that it really applies to this particular topic (illegal immigration)

now here's the biggie......what if the presidents orders go against the constitution?

If and when this happens, I suppose soldiers need to ask themselves who and what they're really fighting for.

[VonMessa]

Putting it completely in context doesn't change my point, or do anything for his.  That's why I snipped it.  His oath is still to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.  If a federal law is unconstitutional, I wouldn't go calling people who fight against it the scum of society.  They're doing his job.

Cap - for someone who has already tried to insult my intelligence, you aren't keeping up with me very well:
If and when this happens, I suppose soldiers need to ask themselves who and what they're really fighting for.

Again.

The whole part of bearing true faith and allegiance?

The small tidbit about whose orders you are to follow ?

These are pretty important, compelling and aren't things a would-be soldier, Marine, etc would be able to omit.  Why would you?

[Vudak]

Again.

The whole part of bearing true faith and allegiance?

The small tidbit about whose orders you are to follow ?

These are pretty important, compelling and aren't things a would-be soldier, Marine, etc would be able to omit.  Why would you?

They bear true faith and allegiance "to the same," meaning, once again, The Constitution.

Further, that document is technically still the highest law in the land.  All other powers are subservient to it.

Anyway, this is getting to be a pretty interesting and important discussion, so I invite anyone who would like to continue it to PM me, so that we CAN continue it.  All are welcome, but I'm bowing out of this thread.

[Serenity]

Not that it really applies to this particular topic (illegal immigration), Serenity, but do keep in mind that much of federal law is unconstitutional, so by supporting much of it, you're actually breaking that oath of enlistment you took:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"

It's not all black or white, regardless of what your superiors need you to believe.

I will grant you, in some situations, this may be a valid point. However, where is law on illegal immigration unconstitutional? We are not banning immigration, we are simply requiring certain paths to be followed.

[guncrasher]

You guys switched really fast.  The original question still is, if illegal immigrants don't do the low jobs that we don't want, then who will? Some of you guys are unemplyed will you work on the fields for minimum. Wage?  You really want to get rid of illegal immigration put your money where your mouth is, encourage yourself or your kids or your neighbors to take the jobs back look for jobs in farms, carwashez, gas stations,  dishwashers etc. 

Wow I just have a great idea, let's have a national find me a minimum or less than minimum wage day.  All true patriots should join since this will be the sure way to get rid if illegal immigration.


Semp

[CAP1]

NO,  will not. those that employ illegals will not pay minimum wage.

read that article again. illegal immigration is what drove wages down for hard working americans.

 when there's 5 illegals living in one apartment, with no family to support, no insurance of any kind, no bills....they can afford to work that cheap.

 go after those that employ the illegals, and the illegals themselves...as arizona is.....and the problem will go away.

[VonMessa]

You guys switched really fast.  The original question still is, if illegal immigrants don't do the low jobs that we don't want, then who will? Some of you guys are unemplyed will you work on the fields for minimum. Wage?  You really want to get rid of illegal immigration put your money where your mouth is, encourage yourself or your kids or your neighbors to take the jobs back look for jobs in farms, carwashez, gas stations,  dishwashers etc.  

Wow I just have a great idea, let's have a national find me a minimum or less than minimum wage day.  All true patriots should join since this will be the sure way to get rid if illegal immigration.


Semp

Why should I?

I've educated myself.  Some of the money earned through the blood, sweat and tears that I gave while working for 4 years for my Uncle (Sam, if you didn't figure it out).  Some of the money from my own pocket.

My first job was working on a farm.  Up at 4AM, milking cows by 4:30 and mowing/raking/bailing/throwing hay/straw til 4PM.  The hours and the wages sucked, but it was honest work.

I've also pumped gas, worked as a dishwasher, and at the car-wash.  

All of that made me realize that I didn't want to do it until retirement, therefore I took steps to get a better job.  I've paid my dues as a teenager and later on as a citizen.  I also feel that I have fulfilled my obligation to defend my country.

Advocating that it's OK to let folks immigrate illegally so we do not have to work crappy jobs at minimum wage is absolutely ludicrous.  Teaching our children and youth that working jobs like that is "low-class" or beneath them is half the problem.  It gives them a false sense of entitlement.  The more this happens, the less apt folks are to take these jobs. I bought my first car with money I made on the farm.  I also learned the meaning of honest work.  

It has nothing to do with patriotism, and everything to do with economics.  I am very proud of my country and the fact that it still allows folks to immigrate here and become citizens.  After all, when you polish it to the brass tacks, everyone in the US (natives excepted), is an immigrant (or descendant of one).  

Here's a secret you can pass on to the illegals.

If you were a citizen, you wouldn't be forced to work for less-than minimum wage.