Author Topic: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!  (Read 16017 times)

Offline Ghastly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1756
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2010, 09:12:01 AM »
It has been tried.

The whine here was, how can you sneek a base if you know the order in which the bases must be taken?

After all, we don't want to have to fight anyone, do we?

Look what happened when the dar circles were enlarged. 
"...But they'll know where we are...."



wrongway

The problem is that this game has to walk a knife edge that most MMORG's don't.  On the one hand, sneaking kills gameplay - too much of it means that it's tough to ever find a fight because the whack-a-mole is gone by the time you get there.  On the other hand, hording kills game play too - too many in too big of a bunch too much of the time makes it nearly impossible for someone who's not a member of a huge group (read a "mega-squad" member) to accomplish anything meaningful.

And almost anything you do to limit whack-a-mole avoidance of any combat increases the hording problems, and vice-versa.  Sucks, but there it is. 
<S>


"Curse your sudden (but inevitable!) betrayal!"
Grue

Offline kvuo75

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3003
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2010, 09:14:37 AM »
(You come in and start playing a 1PM only to have the game change a 3PM just as you were about to get a base you had been working on for the last 2 hours, only to be told sorry gents we got to switch to the night arena you'll have to finish tomorrow, and don't forget to be there at 4am or the base you had sweatted your butt off to get will be back up.)

It's already bad enough that Titanic Tuesdays mean nothing more than score hoarding because taking a base means nothing.


if anything, the new system is more accomodating to map resetters than it was before.. Before, you only had a week to "win" a map before it was reset for TT. now, your progress is saved each day. including tuesday..


kvuo75

Kill the manned ack.

Offline Changeup

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5688
      • Das Muppets
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2010, 09:20:31 AM »
In all seriousness...anyone that has let this game become a part of their personal-needs-life-category or uses it to judge their worth needs to get some help...real help.  Wow. 

Changeup
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline grizz441

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7000
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2010, 09:32:59 AM »
Way to miss the point sailing twenty feet over your head.

He never said he wanted "the game" to be easier for HIM. Everybody else plays by the same rules. Everybody would be equally affected. And he's not talking about the flight model, or making his bullets act like heat-seaking howitzer rounds, or any other aspect of the game related to the simulation of air combat.

I think all fans would agree that baseball would not be a better game if the outfield fence was 800 feet from home plate. Football would not be a better game if it took 30 yards to get a first down rather than ten. Basketball wouldn't be a better game if the rim was 30 feet off the ground (though some might consider 12 feet an improvement...) Complaining about the rules if any of those changes was instituted wouldn't be about "dumbing down" the game or making it easier for any particular player.

The point is that in any game there is a proper balance between offense and defense that leads to the best gameplay. The OP was saying that balance is out of whack in AH, it has only been made worse by recent changes, and a lot of players are unhappy and may leave as a result - not because it's "too hard" for him to get kills or compete with other players but because gameplay is suffering due to the inability for anyone to achieve any strategic results.

Whether you agree or disagree, deliberately misunderstanding the OP's argument and arguing like a 2-year-old in response isn't helpful.

+1
Couldn't agree more.

Bases are too difficult to take in a global strategic sense.  Yeah, it can be done, but it requires too many people and too much time to be worth a damn on a map sized for 2000 players.

Bases used to be very easy to capture but what many of you here fail to understand is how that promoted a goal oriented game.  Players could actually make an impact in the war with just a couple friends.  Heck me and bipolar used to try and sneak bases just the two of us from time to time and it was a blast.  Sometimes a few of us muppets would NOE raid a base deep into enemy territory and then defend the hell out of it and call it an "Alamo Mission".  That part of the game is dead.

Another failure of this game is to tie in the size of the map to the difficulty of capturing a base.  How many large maps have been won since the newest town updates?  You get one week to win a war(before the cap update anyway)...I highly doubt a large map has been won, in fact I doubt a large map hasn't even been close to being won.  

Not a very organized post, but just a few random thoughts regarding how the new towns have negatively effected the game.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 09:34:57 AM by grizz441 »

Offline 1Boner

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2285
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2010, 09:39:08 AM »
What...you can't get a K4 and catch em or climb up there with them? :rolleyes:

Sure I could. :rolleyes:

But I'm gettin kind of sick of wasting my time climbing to and chasing guys who hide from the fights using altitude.

Thats the reason I used to love defending against NOEs,win or lose you could up and have a bunch of quick fights.

Sadly, those days are gone.
"Life is just as deadly as it looks"  Richard Thompson

"So umm.... just to make sure I have this right.  What you are asking is for the bombers carrying bombs, to stop dropping bombs on the bombs, so the bombers can carry bombs to bomb things with?"  AKP

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16186
      • 56 FG "Zemke's Wolfpack"
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2010, 09:39:28 AM »
The OP is frustrated, I get that. I don't think the change in the arenas is the cause. It could be that he averages over 100 hours  of game play a month this being 10% of the whole squads time in the air meaning he doesn't always have that squad power behind him and helping to grab the next base. Thus frustration....if the main line of your play is base capture.

On the other hand as Guppy said there is so much more to this game.

DMGOD, complaint about the hit run wusses is closer to the mark I think, though he knows I don't fall under that blanket...you got me what 3 times on that one run in your 110?  :cry The point is that game play has changed, alot!

Years ago, before the Lusche graph era, game play was a lot different than it is now, and I can see the changes HTC has made to try and get some of that back. In the old days there was squad rivalries. Squad were very rarely more than the one wing, and you could count on at least 1 if not 3 or 4 being your "bestest" enemy. Those squads that you would spend the whole night banging heads with.

Maps were small, and each base was important, so squads would defend them. Sure you could try and capture bases for the win, but the enemy was just as good as you and could capture them as fast. You can't win the war if you loose a base for each one you grab. We knew this and defense was almost as important a grab because of it. Grabbing bases or defending bases, both generated fights. Today, most players are looking to grab bases as fast as they can because that is the be all and end all of their game. Most haven't a hope in hell to see a reset. So the "win" is the base grab, not the war, nor the save of a base.

Of the recent changes, lowering dar took away "easy NOEs" they are more easily spotted. This makes it easyer for other to spot them so they are more prone to defend just because it's another place to fight. The new towns do the same, only they do it due to size. Old days a few 110's could drop a town in minutes and troops were running before anyone could get there to fight. Now the town takes longer to flatten and thus more people have time to defend/fight.

So while I see the changes as HTC trying to bring back these smaller fights like we use to have with the small squads going head to head, I can see the OP's frustration. His game has always been hit quick and and grab another base because that IS his end game. Now he has to work for it and in his year of playing hasn't built the skills he needs to rise to the occasion. Without his squad it's NOT FUN ANY MORE.

I for one am VERY glad of the changes. Anything that adds more fights, IS more fun. I'm hoping that those hit and run ponys take the time to learn a few ACM's and start employing them. It will take time, but those that still want to grab their bases will learn to fight for them.  You may loose a battle because the arena reset will come just before you win a base, but you will win a few just before the arena reset too. In the end it will even out. But the fight I'm happy to say looks like it is coming back to the game.

Offline Max

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7281
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2010, 09:45:07 AM »
Well said T.F.
That which does not crack us makes us stronger.

Offline 1Boner

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2285
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2010, 09:45:44 AM »
The same guys who ignored "easy" Noes then, still ignore them today.

And I'm guessing they are the same ones who would whine about guys taking"undefended" bases as THEY swoop down into a fight from 15k to pick and climb.
"Life is just as deadly as it looks"  Richard Thompson

"So umm.... just to make sure I have this right.  What you are asking is for the bombers carrying bombs, to stop dropping bombs on the bombs, so the bombers can carry bombs to bomb things with?"  AKP

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16186
      • 56 FG "Zemke's Wolfpack"
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2010, 10:00:14 AM »
The same guys who ignored "easy" Noes then, still ignore them today.

And I'm guessing they are the same ones who would whine about guys taking"undefended" bases as THEY swoop down into a fight from 15k to pick and climb.

I didn't ignore them, I just couldn't find them. Then if I did find them and try to up there I was vulched. So I would up at the next field only to arrive AFTER they had captured the base and moved on to the next undefended field because they would very raely defend the field, after all the "win" is the capture right?. Where in all of that was there a "fight"?

At least now you have more time to find the NOEs and more time to get there to defend. The game is about fighting, not grabbing base though that does seem to be a lot of peoples end game. Why is it there end game? My guess is it too much trouble for them to get good enough at anything by them selves to have fun at the "other things" that are available to play in this game.

Offline 1Boner

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2285
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2010, 10:07:48 AM »
I didn't ignore them, I just couldn't find them. Then if I did find them and try to up there I was vulched. So I would up at the next field only to arrive AFTER they had captured the base and moved on to the next undefended field because they would very raely defend the field, after all the "win" is the capture right?. Where in all of that was there a "fight"?

At least now you have more time to find the NOEs and more time to get there to defend. The game is about fighting, not grabbing base though that does seem to be a lot of peoples end game. Why is it there end game? My guess is it too much trouble for them to get good enough at anything by them selves to have fun at the "other things" that are available to play in this game.

I NEVER had a hard time detecting NOEs.

They were the flashing bases with no dar bar usually. :rolleyes:

Usually when I upped to defend them, I would find that there was  a group of like minded guys who would help at almost every one.

It was a blast. Win or lose.
"Life is just as deadly as it looks"  Richard Thompson

"So umm.... just to make sure I have this right.  What you are asking is for the bombers carrying bombs, to stop dropping bombs on the bombs, so the bombers can carry bombs to bomb things with?"  AKP

Offline oakranger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8287
      • http://www.slybirds.com/
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2010, 10:16:15 AM »

Got any pointers? 

  :lol,  you answer to everything is the P-38. 
Oaktree

56th Fighter group

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22267
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2010, 10:22:19 AM »
wasn't it not too terribly long ago that people were complaining that the bases were too easy to take?
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline B4Buster

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4816
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2010, 10:30:10 AM »
This example would be a good place to start.

ack-ack

 :rofl :rofl That was fun.
"I was a door gunner on the space shuttle Columbia" - Scott12B

Offline grizz441

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7000
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2010, 10:31:46 AM »
wasn't it not too terribly long ago that people were complaining that the bases were too easy to take?

Try to keep up please.

Offline Crythos

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 75
Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2010, 10:38:11 AM »
Quote from: Crash Orange on Today at 07:53:31 AM
Way to miss the point sailing twenty feet over your head.

He never said he wanted "the game" to be easier for HIM. Everybody else plays by the same rules. Everybody would be equally affected. And he's not talking about the flight model, or making his bullets act like heat-seaking howitzer rounds, or any other aspect of the game related to the simulation of air combat.

I think all fans would agree that baseball would not be a better game if the outfield fence was 800 feet from home plate. Football would not be a better game if it took 30 yards to get a first down rather than ten. Basketball wouldn't be a better game if the rim was 30 feet off the ground (though some might consider 12 feet an improvement...) Complaining about the rules if any of those changes was instituted wouldn't be about "dumbing down" the game or making it easier for any particular player.

The point is that in any game there is a proper balance between offense and defense that leads to the best gameplay. The OP was saying that balance is out of whack in AH, it has only been made worse by recent changes, and a lot of players are unhappy and may leave as a result - not because it's "too hard" for him to get kills or compete with other players but because gameplay is suffering due to the inability for anyone to achieve any strategic results.

Whether you agree or disagree, deliberately misunderstanding the OP's argument and arguing like a 2-year-old in response isn't helpful.

+1
Couldn't agree more.

Bases are too difficult to take in a global strategic sense.  Yeah, it can be done, but it requires too many people and too much time to be worth a damn on a map sized for 2000 players.

Bases used to be very easy to capture but what many of you here fail to understand is how that promoted a goal oriented game.  Players could actually make an impact in the war with just a couple friends.  Heck me and bipolar used to try and sneak bases just the two of us from time to time and it was a blast.  Sometimes a few of us muppets would NOE raid a base deep into enemy territory and then defend the hell out of it and call it an "Alamo Mission".  That part of the game is dead.

Another failure of this game is to tie in the size of the map to the difficulty of capturing a base.  How many large maps have been won since the newest town updates?  You get one week to win a war(before the cap update anyway)...I highly doubt a large map has been won, in fact I doubt a large map hasn't even been close to being won. 

Not a very organized post, but just a few random thoughts regarding how the new towns have negatively effected the game.

+1 to what Crashorange and what Grizz said

To all those saying base taking is irrelevent, shouldnt you be in the DA?

Dont care what peeps say I am a happy toolshedding. basetaking. mission runner because that IS what the main arena is about getting into a damn good scrap whilst doing it is a bonus.
"Tojo"