Author Topic: P-38 H  (Read 2782 times)

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2010, 01:43:27 PM »
http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm


Back to the H....

Essentially there is no reason to add it as it doesn't really fill any gaps between the G and the J?


wrongway

Since the H was the one to go into combat in the ETO with the 55th, maybe it would be nice :)  Or because it would mean more skins for the Headhunter 38s!

Uptown, F and G essentially the same bird.  It wouldn't be better, but similar.
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline uptown

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8566
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2010, 01:45:51 PM »
http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm


Back to the H....

Essentially there is no reason to add it as it doesn't really fill any gaps between the G and the J?


wrongway

Sure it does. If my thinking is correct, what you'd have is basically a G with wep or a great turning J .................almost anyway.


If the F and G are about the same then I wouldn't see any reason to add it. Tha'd be like adding the P51K . Kind of pointless. The three 38s we have how seem to cover all the bases already.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 01:54:06 PM by uptown »
Lighten up Francis

Offline uptown

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8566
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2010, 02:00:14 PM »
Akak's post had me thinking that the F might offer something different then we already have. Other then skins that is.
Lighten up Francis

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2010, 02:15:24 PM »
Akak's post had me thinking that the F might offer something different then we already have. Other then skins that is.

Depends on what F model.  Early F models didn't have the "combat maneuvering" setting until the P-38F-15.  Don't know how many early model Fs were produced but if we were to get the F, this is the early F model (w/out the combat manuevering setting) I would want.

ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2010, 02:28:07 PM »
There was a real, from the ground up K model built. No photos are known to exist, and it was either destroyed, dismantled, or converted. The pictures are of the test mule (maybe as early as an E model to begin with) that was converted to match the K model.

The K had 1750HP (military power, 1875HP WEP) Allisons with fully counterweighted crankshafts and an improved intake manifold, similar to the G series Allisons.

The K had the three blade version of the Hamilton Standard High Activity Paddle propeller, it was around 13'6" I think. There was never a four blade version fitted.

The K required new nose cowls for the engine and propeller area, as the gearbox was different, as was the gear ratio, and the propellers were higher in relation to the engine. The War Production Board, citing the extremely high demand for the P-38, and the lack of second sourcing, denied Lockheed permission to shut down each of the two production lines for 1-2 weeks each, the time required to make the changes.

There was NEVER a Merlin powered P-38. Lockheed did a study and found the idea had no merit. The use of the Merlin in the P-38 would have added well over 1500 pounds to the air frame, and would have reduced both climbing performance and range. If you want to butcher a P-38, and make a pig out of it, hang Merlins on it. The P-38 had no need for Merlins, the turbocharged Allison F series V-1710 had all of the high altitude performance anyone could use, and maintained sea level HP far above any altitude any but the most special tuned Merlin could ever hope to.

The K model could climb to 20K from a standing start on the runway in around 4-5 minutes, it could reach over 450MPH in level flight, at altitudes high enough to reach compressibility in level flight, and had almost 20% more range than a P-38J. All of this was done with a rough hand fitted cowling, and in the case of the test mule, on an already well worn, used and abused air frame.


The Hamilton Standard propeller also reduced the load on the electrical system, since it was hydrostatic, as opposed to the junky electric Curtiss propeller. The single biggest flaw from the P-38J on was the Curtiss electric propeller. It wasted a good 20% or more of the power produced by the Allison engine, and taxed the electrical system. Had they just changed the propeller on the P-38, from the J model on, from the Curtiss to the Hamilton Standard, first to the three blade, and later to the four blade, the P-38 would have gained considerably in top speed, climb rate, range, and acceleration. Consider that even with the Curtiss propeller, the P-38 accelerated faster from cruise speed to 400MPH than any other fighter in the U.S. inventory until maybe the F8F.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline TwinBoom

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2960
      • 39th FS "Cobra In The Clouds"
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2010, 05:26:27 PM »
http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm


Back to the H....

Essentially there is no reason to add it as it doesn't really fill any gaps between the G and the J?


wrongway
somebody kill wrongway

H faster than g turn of g whats not to like
TBs Sounds 
39th FS "Cobra In The Clouds"NOSEART

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2010, 06:17:58 PM »
Think of the H as a G with WEP (short duration), and a little more military power, with about the same weight. It was the plane the 55th and 20th started with in late 43, so it is pretty significant historically.

Again, as nice as it would be to have, there are other planes needed. However, if they were to add variants to any other plane already in the hangar, the P-38H is a viable a candidate as any, since there are other planes with more than three variants.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline 321BAR

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6140
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2010, 09:42:04 PM »
Think of the H as a G with WEP (short duration), and a little more military power, with about the same weight. It was the plane the 55th and 20th started with in late 43, so it is pretty significant historically.

Again, as nice as it would be to have, there are other planes needed. However, if they were to add variants to any other plane already in the hangar, the P-38H is a viable a candidate as any, since there are other planes with more than three variants.
Yeah and our 19 H's lost 8 of them within 3 months time November '43 to January '44

By then we got our J models and had separated from the 55th totally
I am in need of a new epic quote
Happy Jack's Go Buggy

Offline Plawranc

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2683
      • Youtube Channel
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2010, 10:03:00 PM »
Alright.

You all caught me.

What I am wishing for is a G thats faster and with WEP, but with the same turn. OK?!

and the P-38 at my local museum is an H, and seeing as I donated 100$ to its reconstruction I want to fly it !!
DaPacman - 71 Squadron RAF

"There are only two things that make life worth living. Fornication and Aviation"

Offline olds442

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2239
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2010, 08:36:04 PM »
kinda becoming a 38 enthusiast and would love to know also...

+1 for the experimental merlin K model :x
+2 for the H :aok
god a merlin i hate merlins :noid
only a moron would use Dolby positioning in a game.
IGN: cutlass "shovels and rakes and implements of destruction"

Offline Dichotomy

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12386
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2010, 08:44:19 PM »
Akak's post had me thinking

he does that to me all of the time now Virgil is chiming in and it's like an evil vortex of factual history... a little more and my brain will explode. 
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute

Offline 321BAR

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6140
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2010, 02:31:24 PM »
so whos up for the P38H then or the F? ill take both
I am in need of a new epic quote
Happy Jack's Go Buggy

Offline Lab Rat 3947

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1023
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2011, 11:31:35 PM »
I would also vote for the early F. :aok

Going back to the K model, there was an article by Corey C. Jordan, titled "What ever happened to the Lockheed P-38K? The Story of the Best Performing Variant of the P-38 Lightning."

If you love Lightnings, you'll love this article.
LtngRydr
14th FG Grounded

80th FS "Headhunters"

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2011, 01:11:23 AM »
I would also vote for the early F. :aok

Going back to the K model, there was an article by Corey C. Jordan, titled "What ever happened to the Lockheed P-38K? The Story of the Best Performing Variant of the P-38 Lightning."

If you love Lightnings, you'll love this article.

Corey C. Jordan is a long time Aces High player, you guys know him by his handle "Widewing".


ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Re: P-38 H
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2011, 03:18:48 AM »
The article is posted here: http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm

The other article on that site, with contributions from Art Heiden and Stan Richardson Jr,  both of whom I had the distinct pleasure of getting to know via email, as well as another man, I think his name was Dr. Carlo Kopp, dispelled a ton of bogus B.S., rumors, and wives' tails regarding the P-38.

That article can be found here: http://www.ausairpower.net/P-38-Analysis.html

Unfortunately, I think ATT killed WideWing's website, Planes and Pilots of World War II, I'm not sure how much he was able to save, or if he will ever put it back up. That's truly sad, there was some great stuff on that site.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe