So... what was with the....?

[Krusty]

So... What was with the 4-6 squadrons of B-26s that hit 143 at about the time everybody was landing and RTB had been called? The one of them I killed was shown to have taken off at start of frame (JMAC) and then 90 minutes later finally arrived en masse over 143 with his squad mates at about 26k-27k alt.


What's up with that? Seriously? I'm sure it breaks T+60 or something. I know the field was hit prior, but THESE guys did nothing at all for 90 minutes waiting for everybody to land and tower out before hitting the field. Surely it's a breach of ettiquette or rules or something?

[oakranger]

    

LOL,  Sounds like a squad of noobs. 

[Bannor]

I joined as a gunner for the long flight. The field was hit at almost the exact time it was supposed to according to orders. The execution of the orders left plenty of time to hit target and rtb for the most part safely. Hitting it when the defense was weakest and pursuit would be limited. The field was hit earlier. The VH was down prior. I thought they did a pretty good job with the drop and showed a lot of patience.

[Shifty]

   

LOL,  Sounds like a squad of noobs. 

You're such a seasoned internet warrior Oaktree.

[Flench]

 

[oakranger]

You're such a seasoned internet warrior Oaktree.

(Image removed from quote.)

 

[perdue3]

I joined as a gunner for the long flight. The field was hit at almost the exact time it was supposed to according to orders. The execution of the orders left plenty of time to hit target and rtb for the most part safely. Hitting it when the defense was weakest and pursuit would be limited. The field was hit earlier. The VH was down prior. I thought they did a pretty good job with the drop and showed a lot of patience.

You're thinking of the wrong raid. These buffs hit 143 with formations at T+ 95

[ImADot]

Seems to me that every time there's a late-frame strike - from either side - there's someone who whines about it.  In one FSO, I was on the defense side of a late-frame zeke strike - and I'm talking about 5 minutes left in the frame with no chance for them to rtb when they struck the CV group.  The late-frame strike you're talking about here was well planned and all surviving bombers landed with five minutes to spare.

143 was struck before T+60 by a squad of B-26's which were able to take down three hangars.  I see no breach of published rules.  The main strike force hit the target with explosive ordinance well before T+60 and the fighters with them were engaged.  Why do people insist on making up their own "special rules" and expect every asset to hit every target before T+60 and then have everyone land and tower out after 90 minutes?  Maybe people want these events to only run for 90 minutes because they have A.D.D. or don't have the discipline to fly for the full two hours that the event is scheduled for.

[Viper61]

Krusty - No that was planned mission and I planned it.  The FSO rules were followed with a creditable squad sized attack prior to H+60.  In fact you had one medium and one small squad hit A143 prior to H+60 or about 15-18 pilots in total.  Your own log shows that you engaged and shot down both fighters and bombers from this effort.  The fighter sweep tried to remain east of the field (deception) and the bombers (main effort 01) coming in from the southwest 10 - 15 minutes later.  The 325th VFG (main effort 02) used a round about route to climb to 24K in B-26s and come in unescorted at or about H+90.  After flying 350 miles to reach the target I may have been off by a minute or two.  Yes the timing of the attack was to come over A143 while enemy refueling and rearming operations were being done.  I have found it to be tactically safer that way when your unescorted.  Our last B-26 landed at H+117 at A141.  There were 7 cells of B-26's used or 27 in total and I believe we lost 5 single AC to the fighter defenses.  I know I saw a single 109 east of A143 that chased me and gave up.  I heard reports of 2 more 190's attacking the group.  Your log also shows that you engaged the 325th VFG bombers.  I though the defenders still over A143 (yourself included) did a good job of defending against our attack and it was heavier than I thought.    

Oakranger - The 325th VFG isn't a "Squad of noobs" and has been around for a long time in this game.  In fact you should try planning a bombing mission which involves taking a bomber that was never intended for high altitude bombing and fly it at the upper end of its proformance, fly 350 miles half of which was over enemy controlled areas with 7 different flight legs.  Avoid all contact until the bombs were away.  Strike the target at the planned altitude and within a 2 minutes of the planned drop time in 1 pass.  And land your last AC 90 miles away with 3 minutes to spare.  The planning only took an hour prior to lift off and required constint recalculating during flight to compensate for winds, AC proformance, enemy locations and coordination's with other supporting squads in route.  O and get it right on the first try without any rehearsals or "Flying offline" to "pre fly" the mission.

    Your comments are offensive to myself and the 325th VFG, ask that you keep them to yourself when referring to my squad in the future.  

Viper 61
Operations Officer
325th VFG  

[ghostdancer]

Per the raw logs A143 was hit by the 334th FS "The Eagles" at T+ 34. They had 6 formations of B26s and escorts. The 325th then hit A143 at T+91 with 7 formations of B26s.

All Allied targets had a credible strike force assigned and hit their targets before the T+60. No violation there.

Also the 325th who conducted the separate late frame strike hit their target, were engaged, and survivors managed to land before end frame (roughly 2 minutes before frame end). So it was not a suicide or kamikaze run.

They simply conducted a two part attack. First wave to engaged your defenders and exhaust their ammo and fuel and bomb the base (first wave took down 3 hangars). Then a second wave sent in to hopefully take advantage of the exhausted defenders being either at lower alt, needing to re-arm, being disorganized, or all of the above.

[ghostdancer]

Just heard word from setup CM and he said he called a RTB for all sides at T+110 after he got confirmation by both sides CiCs they were calling their troops home.

So At T+91 there was no CM RTB announcement.

[Bannor]

You're thinking of the wrong raid. These buffs hit 143 with formations at T+ 95

No, I was gunning for Viper. Man, I was in there for over an hour. Thanks for waking me from my nap Viper. 

[Viper61]

Bannor - Always appreciate a good gunner and your time sticking it out with us.  I know you were itching for that 109 that was chasing us to get just a little closer before you blasted him.  It could have been Krusty!!     Thanks for hanging in with us if you ever need a gunner let me know 

[Viper61]

GD thank you for the clearification 

[Krusty]

Ghostdancer... the intent of the T+60 is to prevent AVOIDING the fight. To prevent folks from orbiting for hours then landing, and THEN having the bad guys come in with no defenders.


While technically this field was hit bfore T+60 (by a different group) these particular bombers flew around the entire frame AVOIDING fights so that they might rack up free points at the end with no opposition. I know the FIELD was hit before T+60, but these guys did eff-all for 95 minutes trying to hide.


Hiding behind technicalities doesn't deny the fact they broke the spirit of the rules.

The folks I ran into earlier were spitfires. They sure had no problems chasing planes back to our field looking for easy/wounded targets. However, it still remains that all of their bombers pilots were engaged in an underhanded and unacceptable tactic.