Author Topic: What defeated the japs?  (Read 2704 times)

Offline Rash

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #90 on: March 01, 2011, 09:54:17 PM »
Spielberg and Christan Bale say this won it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02BBtN-P0lc 
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Offline oakranger

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #91 on: March 01, 2011, 10:50:04 PM »
Spielberg and Christan Bale say this won it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02BBtN-P0lc 

What is wrong about the skin on the P-51? 
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Offline Yeager

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #92 on: March 02, 2011, 10:50:55 AM »
read "Zero" written in 1955 by Masatake Okumiya (avaitor) and Jiro Horikoshi (Chief design engineer of the Zero).  Paperback copies still available online.

Fascinating read from the Japanese perspective AFTER the war.   Highly recommended.

Interesting footnote: The two atomic bombs accounted for 3% of the bombardment destruction against Japans cities during the entire second world war.
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Offline Megalodon

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #93 on: March 02, 2011, 12:37:05 PM »
not just the PAC, CBI.

My vote goes to the P40.

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Offline Sabre

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #94 on: March 02, 2011, 01:49:17 PM »
As has been pointed out, no specific aircraft or other weapon system can take credit for the defeat of the Japanese. If you want to talk specifically about the air war, the Japanese were primarily defeated, in my opinion, by a number of interrelated factors and decisions that can be loosely grouped into four main catagories: equipment, doctrine, training, and logistics.

Equipment: Put simply, the Japanese build the very best combat aircraft in the world...for the previous war.  The sacrificing of firepower, horsepower, and durability in exchange for maneuverability and range resulted in combat aircraft that were quickly rendered obsolete and ineffective against an enemy that refused to fight the kind of fight the Japanese had prepared for. They were also, technologically, at the cutting edge of their industrial capability.  As a result, they were unable to keep up (quantitatively) with the rapid advances in aviation and ordinance design.  Sure, they could design and build prototypes of combat aircraft that were, on paper at least, on par with American designs; however, the did not have an industrial base of trained workers or readily available raw materials to produce them in quantity.

Doctrine: Tactically, the Japanese airmen in the beginning were superbly trained in ACM. They did not, however, spend any real time on wingman tactics. Once they lost the numerical advantage they initially held in the air when the war started, such lone-wolf tactics became ineffective and darn near suicidal.  They were also not particularly adept at supporting bombers, or in close air support roles.

Training: While the aircrews the Japanese began the war with were incredibly skilled, their training methods and capabilities where not up to the task of rapidly replacing -- let alone expanding --their cadre.  They did not appreciate or plan for either rapid and massive losses, or for the duration of sustained combat operations.  Add to this the fact that they did not routinely rotate veteran combat pilots back home to pass on the hard-won lessons they'd learned, and poor or inconsistent methods to introduce newbies to combat with an eye to getting them through their first 10 or so missions.

Logistics: Volumes have been written about this issue, as it relates to the Japanese' fortunes (or lack of fortunes) in World War II.  Needless to say, the Japanese did not have the resources to sustain combat across such a vast operational area. Even early in the war, a lack of skilled maintenance crews, spares, ammo and fuel constrained the Japanese considerably, even in the best of time.  As they struggled to field more advance types of aircraft, this only got worse.

For what it's worth, the P-40 will always be the aircraft that symbolizes the Pacific war to me.  Like the Wildcat, it was inferior in many ways to the Japanese aircraft they went up against early in the war.  Both bore the brunt and held the line against the Japanese, through skill and valor, until their newer counterparts were available to take up the batton.
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Offline SIK1

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #95 on: March 02, 2011, 02:00:47 PM »
Interesting footnote: The two atomic bombs accounted for 3% of the bombardment destruction against Japans cities during the entire second world war.

Yes and the Japanese didn't surrender for almost a week after Nagasaki was bombed. So to say that the atomic bomb was instrumental in the defeat of Japan is a gross over simplification. What the atomic bomb did do was show the Japanese military leaders that the continuation of the war would only result in the complete destruction of Japan. Even then, there were those that refused to except defeat, and were more than willing to continue until Hirohito himself announced Japans capitulation.
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Offline morfiend

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #96 on: March 02, 2011, 05:04:41 PM »
Yes and the Japanese didn't surrender for almost a week after Nagasaki was bombed. So to say that the atomic bomb was instrumental in the defeat of Japan is a gross over simplification. What the atomic bomb did do was show the Japanese military leaders that the continuation of the war would only result in the complete destruction of Japan. Even then, there were those that refused to except defeat, and were more than willing to continue until Hirohito himself announced Japans capitulation.


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Offline BiPoLaR

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #97 on: March 02, 2011, 05:12:36 PM »
Everyone knows the n00k was dropped from a B-38!!
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #98 on: March 02, 2011, 06:23:16 PM »
Ok, i need your help.  My dad and brother are arguing with me on what U.S. fighter defeated the japs.  They both said the P-51.  I disagree to a certain extent and said the F4U did.  What is the answer.  (ack-ack and/or krusty will be by to answer this) 

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Offline smoe

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #99 on: March 02, 2011, 07:46:59 PM »
After whatching Battle 360, I would say the USS Enterprise won the war in the Pacific.

According to the first episode of Battle 360 the Enterprise was do in port on the morning of Dec. 7, 1941. It was held back by a tropical storm. Probably similar to the one the Japanese refer to as the Kamikaze aka. the "divine wind."

Quote
The Japanese word Kamikaze is usually translated as "divine wind" (kami is the word for "god", "spirit", or "divinity", and kaze for "wind"). The word kamikaze originated as the name of major typhoons in 1274 and 1281, which dispersed Mongolian invasion fleets.

The only problem for Japan was the "divine wind" seemed to be on the US's side during WWII.

Offline Chalenge

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #100 on: March 02, 2011, 08:27:16 PM »
Sorry but your all wrong. It was the liberty ship effort the C47 and the Jeep.
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Offline Sabre

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #101 on: March 03, 2011, 10:20:31 AM »
Sorry but your all wrong. It was the liberty ship effort the C47 and the Jeep.

Well, both Gen Eisenhower in Europe and Gen Kenny in the South Pacific noted that the C47 was probably the single most impacting weapons system deployed in their respective theaters of operations.  I think the duce-and-a-half was more important than the willy jeep (the Russians certainly felt that way). There's no denying that the Liberty ship (brainchild of the founder of Kaiser Steel Co.) was crucial to success, as well. At peak production, they were cranking out a Liberty ship in 30 days; they were literaly building them faster than the enemy could sink them.
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Offline Tyrannis

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #102 on: March 04, 2011, 04:10:09 PM »
i believe these 3 aircraft won the war.





sure, they didnt last the entire time of the war. but at the very begining they were able to stand against an air force twice there power and against planes that could outmanuever them in allmost every catagory.



they were able to hold the IAF back long enough for the U.S to design new fighters. and thats what makes me believe they are what won the war.

Offline M0nkey_Man

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #103 on: March 04, 2011, 04:36:00 PM »
I would say no fighter played a major role in the defeat of Japan.

Ground based aircraft like the P-38 and P51 & P47s did their share and the carrier borne fighters did theirs.

The one plane that hurt Japan the most was the Dauntless Dive Bomber.

It sank most of Japan's carrier fleet and in almost all cases going at it alone without fighter escort. It sunk the biggest warships Japan had. Without the destruction of the carrier forces the US had little hope in the early and mid years of the war.

Dauntless hit ground targets in preparation of and in support of marine landings... it destroyed enemy supply ships and performed scouting and recon duties.

The fighter planes of the army and navy did their job against the IJN fighters and bombers... but once you think about it, once Japan lost its carriers it lost the war.

But if you want to know which FIGHTER hurt Japan the most... hmmm I'd think the F4F.

You have to think about not total kills but WHO they killed. The F6F is like the P51 in Europe..by the time it got in the fight the enemy was already heavily bled out and these new planes ended up fighting a mostly green enemy air force.

The F4F took on the most veteran IJN pilots without numerical or airframe superiority and held the line..and bled the majority of IJN's experienced pilots. When the F4U and F6F came in they completed the job via superior planes in superior numbers.

finally someone isn't just thinking about kills,Dauntless destroyed a lot of shipping
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Offline mechanic

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Re: What defeated the japs?
« Reply #104 on: March 06, 2011, 05:21:20 PM »
finally someone isn't just thinking about kills,Dauntless destroyed a lot of shipping


Shipping sunk raised national morale slightly if at all even though it had a huge play on how the war panned out. A hero pilot at a parade who displaying his medal for getting some kills would raise morale vastly more despite doing little but taking out a few planes and pilots. Yes taking out the shipping was important, of course, that is obvious when the stats are studied. But just as obvious is the fact that when it became history we remembered the fighter ace far more than the dive bomber crew.That's just how we do things as humans  :)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 05:23:02 PM by mechanic »
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