Arena cap is getting out of hand

[MrRiplEy[H]]

...to roughly 50% of the people logged into the server.  I'm sorry, but that's not trivial, Ripley.  I was just using the 262 as an illustration, whatever fight you're in, people getting 'beamed out' will be confusing and jarring.  I did think, and it's not a good idea.

Umm ok. And you think forcing 100% of the people to log off and fight for the last slots of your squads server somehow better?  

Currently the whole war is stopped and squads get separated. Not good.

Another thing, this is what will happen as the arena grows, what happens when numbers drop off?  Do the two arenas consolidate again?  So you have people 'beaming in' with 10k alt at random?

Since no arena is filled to the max after the split, people can consolidate freely back to the other arena if they feel necessary. That would only happen if the other side would get way too empty for some reason. With a 50% split there's no logical reason to want to go either side (given that squads are preserved on same side naturally), both have equally active war going on. The state of the war is the same on both sides (initially).

Really, I'm 100% sure people wouldn't even notice the whole change they'd just think the opponent had a random disco.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Balancing would work also through social engineering:

Show totally false numbers on arenas. Display the server with less players as having more players -> everyone would be drawn to that server and balance it out.

It's a social problem. People will choose the server that is more full, therefore overfilling it and leaving the other unplayable. This can easily be fixed by fooling them in the login process

[hitech]

I understand the dynamic of the group and I agree that this is what happens. But that is a broad definition of what happens. What are the exact problems we have that contribute to customer dis-satisfaction?

My guess would be an infinite number.  You are trying to fix the symptoms and not the the cause. You assume there is something wrong with an overwhelming force in one area. Now you wish to change this to fix what you perceive as a symptom hence remove more then you have added..

2nd the thought process of product design by polling is one very very very bad idea.

http://blogmaverick.com/2010/04/06/why-you-should-never-listen-to-your-customers/



HiTech

[5PointOh]

HiTech, what is the average lifespan of an AH player.  Just curious if you know something I don't and if I should start planning ahead.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

2nd the thought process of product design by polling is one very very very bad idea.

http://blogmaverick.com/2010/04/06/why-you-should-never-listen-to-your-customers/



HiTech

Very much true. But the hardest part of the innovation is generating solutions to the problems so that the solution works universally.

[Lusche]

HiTech, what is the average lifespan of an AH player.  Just curious if you know something I don't and if I should start planning ahead.

My uneducated guess would be... you are already way past beyond that average span.

But I doubt HTC will give out that kind business details here

[5PointOh]

Dang Lusche, I'm only 30.  I think maybe some of you older gents are in trouble.   

[Traveler]

Ahh I understand you doubt I am telling the truth but you are not calling me a liar. 

I would say lay down that shovel.

HiTech

I never called you a liar and I never said you were not telling the truth.  You quoted me out of context.  Bottom line is you will do what ever you want for what ever reason you believe at the time.   First there was CAP's all the time, then there was caps all the time except Tuesdays .  Then it was Cap's only part of each day.  Each time it was decided by HiTech Creatons that this was going to fix the problem.  The way I see it, the direction the caps are going , soon there will be no caps.

[Wiley]

Umm ok. And you think forcing 100% of the people to log off and fight for the last slots of your squads server somehow better?  

...than people randomly disappearing and reappearing?  Much, much better.

By the by, what happens if you try to log into your squad's server after things have been split and it puts that arena's numbers over?  Does your squad get relocated to the other arena?  What happens if half of all the squads assigned to one arena show up at 7:00 EST, then the other half of all of them show up at 8:00, doubling the numbers in that arena?  How do they get reallocated?

You're ignoring downsides that are game breakers, Ripley.  It's not 'just that simple' and 'oh, people won't notice'.  Squads moving together?  Great.  One thing you'll generally notice about squads, is they have a tendency to fly in the same area.  6 or 8 planes disappearing at once from a battle is not something people will 'just think is a random disco'.  It will significantly affect gameplay, for the worse.

Currently the whole war is stopped and squads get separated. Not good.

And it is still susbstantially preferable to people popping in and out randomly.

Since no arena is filled to the max after the split,

Wait, what?  So it keeps creating new arenas as more and more people come on?  So eventually you wind up with 4 or 5 servers because you had many people logged in at one point, but because there's no mechanism for the arenas to reconsolidate, as they log out you wind up with 4 or 5 servers with 20 odd people in a couple of them?

Oh, but

people can consolidate freely back to the other arena if they feel necessary. That would only happen if the other side would get way too empty for some reason.

...like people logging off after a couple hours.  This would happen very often.

With a 50% split there's no logical reason to want to go either side (given that squads are preserved on same side naturally),

What about squads who enjoy working together?

Really, I'm 100% sure people wouldn't even notice the whole change they'd just think the opponent had a random disco.

If your idea requires that people 'wouldn't notice' stuff happening around them, it would never, ever work in a game design.

Wiley.

[The Fugitive]

Going off the "assigning people to an arena, or a home arena, Euro/PAC" idea. How about setting it up by squad. When a squad is made, have get assigned to Arena "A", or "B". They can always get into that arena "to be with their squad". You can still choose the other arena to play in as long as it's not capped out. Cap set at where HTC believes they start becoming "unhealthy".

To make this work however your going to need a lot of data to figure the limits of number of squads per arena, squads per side, average number of players from squad that play, and how often. Also the restrictions on squad size would have to be tighter controlled, otherwise you might end up with the "Claim Jumpers" against the rooks and bish   With the data HTC could find how many people are active with a squad and what the average number of hours they fly and such to come up with a hard number. Using that hard number they should be able to come up with how many squads per side, per arena will come up to say 75% of his cap number leaving the other 25% for those who don't mind jumping.

With this setup the squads will be able to get together, and those who aren't tied to an arena won't have a problem jumping around. You will still have ALL aircraft and vehicles available in both arenas. You could set this up for all 4 main arenas. You would have to figure in the Euro players/squads verses the US prime time players/squads. The only restrictions would be that some squads won't be able to fight AGAINST some squads, or WITH some squads.

I think something along these lines would solve the main issue (I can't fly with my squad!) but not force more restrictions on those of us who don't mind trying another arena, or side, or plane. The trick would be for HTC to find that magic number of squads to have tied to each arena to make "squad" play fun with out shorting the numbers of an arena.  

[hitech]

I never called you a liar and I never said you were not telling the truth.  You quoted me out of context.  

I say bull, here is 100% quote so it is impossible to be taken out of context.

Arena CAP's are better for HTC business.
End of discussion.

Your responce.

That would be true if the CAP's were always in place.  But everyday the CAP's are removed and there is just one arena until 5:00 PM EST.  There are no CAP's on the Late War arena on Tuesday,  Is that because HiTech doesn't care about business on Tuesday.   The CAP's are in place because HiTech wants the CAP's in place when and where he want's them in place.  I really doubt it has anything to do with business, or lack there of.

Please explain how this piece,"That would be true if the CAP's were always in place." and this "I really doubt it has anything to do with business, or lack there of" is not directly stating that it is your belief , that me changing to split arenas was not because of business reasons?

You well know that I have stated, and chappy is referencing my statements that things were changed for business reasons.

So you are directly stating that you believe my reasons of changing the arena was not because of business reasons.
There is absolutely no way to take that statement other then it you calling me a liar.

Does anyone else see a different way of taking Travelers statements other then how I have interpreted them?
If so please fill me in because I am completely missing it.

Does anyone think I have taken them out of context?

HiTech

[MrRiplEy[H]]

.
And it is still susbstantially preferable to people popping in and out randomly.

One occurrence per day is not popping in and out randomly. Sorry you're not seeing things in the correct proportions. The arena shutdown and resulting block from getting to orange however is a game killer to many and people just log off as a result.

Wait, what?  So it keeps creating new arenas as more and more people come on?  So eventually you wind up with 4 or 5 servers because you had many people logged in at one point, but because there's no mechanism for the arenas to reconsolidate, as they log out you wind up with 4 or 5 servers with 20 odd people in a couple of them?

As I said once the other side gets low in players, people _will_ migrate to the larger server as they do now. This will then be split if it reaches too high a number. People will always choose the side that has more. This very fact is causing this whole issue we're debating about here. If people wouldn't swarm to the larger server we would have two equally full servers churring along nicely without any intervention from HTC.

It ain't happening. Caps are needed and the current implementation of the caps locks people out from their friends.

Oh, but
...like people logging off after a couple hours.  This would happen very often.

I'm sorry but where is there a problem? As mentioned if enough people migrate away people will automatically consolidate because they will choose the larger server again untill there's too many and another split is needed. The smaller remaining server will get empty just as the servers at AVA, mid- and early war remain empty because they don't have enough players to attract more players. Remember that when you have two servers with lets say 180 and 220 players, it's practically the same which you choose. If you have one with 250 and the other with 20 players, it makes a huge difference and 90% of people will choose or keep trying to choose the larger side.

What about squads who enjoy working together?

Now there's the first real downside, good. However with 50% more space available on server and probably player numbers around 2x200, one squad could move at any time without causing major shift in balance.

If your idea requires that people 'wouldn't notice' stuff happening around them, it would never, ever work in a game design.

Wiley.

Quite the opposite. People get disconnected, quit playing etc. in numbers all the time while you're in MA. You just don't notice it unless the disco happens right in front of you.

So are you saying that if you see someone (or even many) disco maximum one time - once a day when you're playing, it absolutely confuses you and ruins your whole days gameplay? LOL! I must have ruined a lot of days then since I discoed 11 times this tour due to network problems

[USRanger]

I say bull, here is 100% quote so it is impossible to be taken out of context.

Your responce.

Please explain how this piece,"That would be true if the CAP's were always in place." and this "I really doubt it has anything to do with business, or lack there of" is not directly stating that it is your belief , that me changing to split arenas was not because of business reasons?

You well know that I have stated, and chappy is referencing my statements that things were changed for business reasons.

So you are directly stating that you believe my reasons of changing the arena was not because of business reasons.
There is absolutely no way to take that statement other then it you calling me a liar.

Does anyone else see a different way of taking Travelers statements other then how I have interpreted them?
If so please fill me in because I am completely missing it.

Does anyone think I have taken them out of context?

HiTech

Oh come on HT.  Come clean.  We know we are on to you.

[ImADot]

I think HT has shown great patience.
I think many people in this thread just want to argue for the sake of arguing, or thinking they're entitled to internal HTC information.
I think we have been given all the explanation needed, and are not entitled to view the metrics used by HTC to drive their business decisions.
I think we should just play and have fun...and if that's not possible due to ego or anger issues, then those with problems should take a step back and analyze their lives.

[Hunter66]

everybody knows that orange is where the kewl catz hang....

so just like the nfl fox segment.."COME ON MAN"  

Bulldog