M18 Hellcat

[AWwrgwy]

We should be good as soon as we get a tank that's in the tank destroyer archetype.. Above average speed, top tier gun, above average armor in the front.

I don't think there are a lot of tank destroyers that meet your archetype.


wrongway

[skorpion]

if you say so

what im simply saying is that if we perked it (which would be completely stupid) people would whine about loosing 10 perks coz its got wet paper tissues as armor. a well aimed 37mm from a M8 would kill it.
we really dont need an underarmored fast moving high powered gun because, how would that help in any way possible? sure it could fill in a gap in the AvA or FSO every once in a while but nobody would use it if there were planes with guns above them.

[moot]

I don't think there are a lot of tank destroyers that meet your archetype.


wrongway

I don't know anything about tanks historically.  What I'm thinking of is whatever vehicles that'd add variety to the current ground battle.    Looking thru Tarrif.net database..

Panzerkampfwagen V Ausf. G "Panther" - 28.75 mph. we got this one
Panzerkampfwagen V Ausf. D (A1) "Panther" - 34 mph, 75mm KwK 42 L/70. unless I'm mistaken that's same gun as Panther G's. Armor is the same except 10mm more than G model's 100mm turret front.  So faster and a little more armor than the G we got.  Why did we get the G?
Panzerkampfwagen V Ausf. A (A2) "Panther"- same speed as our Panther G - redundant
Panzerkampfwagen VI Ausf. B "Tiger II" - 24 mph, too slow
Jagdpanzer 38(t) "Hetzer" - 26 mph, too slow
Jagdpanzer IV / 48 - 25 mph, too slow
Jagdpanzer IV / 70 (A) - 24 mph, too slow
Jagdpanzer IV / 70 (V) - even slower
StuG III Ausf. F - 25 mph
StuG III Ausf. G - same
StuG IV - even slower

Jagdpanther - 34 mph  88mm Kw.K.43 L/71 with 10x, 7° sight.  Same armor as the Panther G.
is that gun any good? Doesn't look like the same 88 as our Tiger.  It looks like it's got better ballistics and significantly more penetration.

Jagdtiger - too slow
Marder II Ausf. D/E  34 -  little armor and not that fast to offset it.
Sd.Kfz.234/2 (8 Rad) "Puma" - 50mph: Slower than M8 and gun looks similar - redundant.

Sd.Kfz.234/4 (8 Rad) - 50 mph, 75mm PaK 40 L/48: Same speed, better gun, worthwhile?  It ain't pretty.

M18 Hellcat - 50mph, 76mm M1A2 L/55 with  5x, 13°
Armor Piercing Composite Rigid seems like only round competitive with Jagdpanther gun.  Barely any armor but very good speed advantage.
M36 - 26mph, too slow

So it's either M18 or Jagdpanther.  The Jagdpanther's very slow but the optics and gun look like in a class of their own.  The Pz.V Ausf. D (A1) Panther looks good but too redundant with the G we just got.

[LLogann]

 

I think Bar is sub-contracting out his wishes now     

[Rob52240]

what im simply saying is that if we perked it (which would be completely stupid) people would whine about loosing 10 perks coz its got wet paper tissues as armor. a well aimed 37mm from a M8 would kill it.
we really dont need an underarmored fast moving high powered gun because, how would that help in any way possible? sure it could fill in a gap in the AvA or FSO every once in a while but nobody would use it if there were planes with guns above them.

It would be better than the 17 pounder anti tank guns found at ports and vehicle bases

[skorpion]

It would be better than the 17 pounder anti tank guns found at ports and vehicle bases

yeah but why not just up a regular sherman or panzer?

[dirt911]

If HTC continues on its current trend when assigning top speeds of AH gv's, the M18 Hellcat will have a 50mph top speed.

Do people realize that the M8 Greyhound had more armor up front than the M18 does???  The most armored place on the M18 is the front of the turret with 44mm of armor (25mm on actual turret and 19mm from the mantlet).  Otherwise the front of the hull of the M18 had 13mm of armor.  Yes, I said 13mm.  The M8 Greyhound had 16mm.

So basically, the M18 will be an M3 (M3 = 48mph) running around with a big gun.  While I'll vouch for any new gv that will fill a gap (the high mph/hvy AP firepower slot is currently void), a remodeled M3 and corresponding 4-5 variants might go further.    

M18 had 25mm of frontal hull armour or so I thought.

[SmokinLoon]

M18 had 25mm of frontal hull armour or so I thought.

The M18 has 13mm armor all the way around the hull.  The front of the turret had 25mm, and that is also supplemented by 19mm from the gun mantlet.

The M18 Hellcat and the M8 Greyhound have ultimately the same amount of armor with a slight edge going to the M8's front hull armor at 16 and 19mm, and a respectable 25mm edge going to the M18's front turret.  Either way, both are toast when any AP round impacts anywhere from any tank at any feasible range.  The only hope the M18 has is to fire and kill the enemy tank before the enemy tank has a chance to fire. 

The speed and team work induced flanking shot is where it will be at for the M18.  Working alone, I have a hard time seeing it being successful.     

[moot]

That's right, the M18 isn't just fast but has the advantage of a turret rather than fixed gun, over the other destroyers listed above.

[Vinkman]

Wouldn't these Tank destryoers would render the tanks obsolete?

A firefly, Panther, T-85, even a panzer can each kill every tank in the game (exception Tiger) with one shot. So killing a destroyer isn't really easier, because it still take one shot to kill it. But 60mph top speed is a game changer isn't it. Dropping an egg would be easier because you could miss by a bigger amount and still kill a destroyer, and maybe a whirble could kill it easier than it kills a tank.  But with destroyers in the game, who's going to to take a tank?

[AWwrgwy]

Wouldn't these Tank destryoers would render the tanks obsolete?

A firefly, Panther, T-85, even a panzer can each kill every tank in the game (exception Tiger) with one shot. So killing a destroyer isn't really easier, because it still take one shot to kill it. But 60mph top speed is a game changer isn't it. Dropping an egg would be easier because you could miss by a bigger amount and still kill a destroyer, and maybe a whirble could kill it easier than it kills a tank.  But with destroyers in the game, who's going to to take a tank?

Won't an M-18's 76mm rounds bounce off as much as an M-4's 76mm rounds?

 


wrongway

[SmokinLoon]

Won't an M-18's 76mm rounds bounce off as much as an M-4's 76mm rounds?

 


wrongway

Considering that they are the same ammunition (M79 AP) ... ...  yeap.     So again, the M18 would almost be regulated to squad tactics because the 50mph speed would have to exploited.  In a 1v1 situation it is a sitting duck. 

[321BAR]

The speed and team work induced flanking shot is where it will be at for the M18.  Working alone, I have a hard time seeing it being successful.     

you've never seen me in an M8 have ya?

[Wildcat1]

you've never seen me in an M8 have ya?

"c'mon guys, let's storm the v-base!!!!"

BAR drives with the hammer down, straight into the enemy v-base, and spots a panzer

ping..... ping...... ping..... ping..... ping......

"i tracked him!"

the panzer gets his turret around

KA-BOOM

BAR in the tower: "yeah i ran outta ammo, or else i would have gotten him"

[7super61]

all of BAR's emoticons are reminding me of something......

oh yes, we will all be like 

and BAR in his new hellcat will be like 

  really who?