Westland Whirlwind

[RTHolmes]

If this is the attitude The Whirlwind Project (which Ive never heard of until today) takes towards potential sponsors/researchers/contributers or indeed just people who have recently discovered this interesting aircraft, then I dont see much of a future for it. Good manners cost nothing.

[nrshida]

Just to clear this up.. did you 'acquire' these, or are you in fact posting the content of the Whirlwind project site, without accreditation and without acknowledgement of the actual copyright holders  - in several cases AgustaWestland, and in one ca se - the wing section sketches, me.

Crikey, it's the extinct aeroplane police!   

Yes I 'acquired' them from the Whirlwind Project website, you don't mind me copying them here do you?

[Beermat]

Apologies - I was a little miffed, as the author of some of that material myself I hope that people will understand.

As RTHolmes says, Good manners cost nothing. I don't mind copying, just a little acknowledgement. Also, the site has warnings about material being copyrighted, and we did say to AgustaWestland that we would be very hot on reproduction of some of their images.

Future for the project? I am not sure that was ever in question. Please take a look at www.whirlwindfighterproject.o rg. there are a lot of researchers and helpers putting in a lot of time to gather this material and more that now has to remain off the site as owners are concerned about copyright.

Finally, I should have done this first. My name's Matt Bearman, I have only ever built Hawker bits before and whe Whirlwind is the biggest and most fun thing I have done. The project is still in the 'design' phase, which (as the vast majority of the drawings were destroyed) is, as you would imagine, a long one. We have the leading lights in Whirly stuff on board, as well as some 'big hitters' in the historic aircraft re-creation / restoration world helping in the background. RTHolmes, feel free to join in - and we don't usually have any kind of 'attitude'. Apologies.

[nrshida]

Hi Matt,

I apologize if I didn't credit you. As soon as I saw the dates on the working drawings (1938 and 1939) I assumed the Copyrights had expired (more than 70 years old) and they were therefore Public Domain. I didn't notice your drawings were more modern as I was in a hurry.

My intention was simply to gather all of the material I could find in case HTC decides at some point to add this aircraft to the game. 

Any internal construction details were merely shared out of interest and to show the workings of the slats etc. Your wing sections are especially useful because of the simulation method HTC employs, but if you wish I will remove them from this thread. Not that I particularly see a conflict of interest, both factions are enthusiastic about the same old bird, we just express it in different ways.

I'd be interested to know how you derived the sections by the way.

[RTHolmes]

Hi Matt

Sorry if I was a little abrupt, welcome to the AH forums

RT

[Beermat]

Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, we are approaching our interest in different ways, and it would be great to work together on this. The thing about the Westland design drawings is we are concerned not to upset AgustaWestland - it is their blessing that gives us a much better chance of this succeeding than previous attempts at this 'holy grail' project. Legal copyright is a moot point, but we wish to remain on the side of the angels regardless!

Those profiles are fairly OK, but be warned that the outer wing sections were 'stretched' from the pure NACA profile to 'fit' along the diagonal frames, not line-of-flight. I measured this from the copy of the drawing reproduced on this thread, so may not be nanometre accurate (in fact, for reasons of 3d geometry and wing taper, which I'm sure you'll be familiar with, they definitely won't be, but the deviation in aerofoil is near-neglegable). They were not going to be used for our build. No, you are OK, leave them there - this thread now serves as a pointer to our project, so I guess it's a good thing..

There will be a CAD Whirly produced, complete with every component listed in the parts manual. I am not techy enough to know whether one can render something from this, but we should be able to make something available. Just not for quite a while! In the meantime make free with what you can glean from the site (you might have to register to get the good stuff), just keep on acknowledging where source is known in return. Ta!

Cheers,

Matt

[MK-84]

I just want to add that I promise I will fly this exclusively for a full tour as soon as it's added

[nrshida]

Yes, we are approaching our interest in different ways, and it would be great to work together on this. The thing about the Westland design drawings is we are concerned not to upset AgustaWestland - it is their blessing that gives us a much better chance of this succeeding than previous attempts at this 'holy grail' project. Legal copyright is a moot point, but we wish to remain on the side of the angels regardless!

I must admit Matt, I find AgustaWestland's Copyright claim to be tenuous in the extreme, but since Aces High is more concerned with the external shape for the flight model and the details of the internal construction more important to you guys, we wouldn't do anything to jeopardise your access to further information they might have for you. 

If we one day get the Crikey added to Aces High, perhaps you could also give us a mention on your website. Some of us would be more than willing to give training to members of the project as a special gesture (this game has a very steep learning curve). Just have them quote the special secret discount code: '219DownWithSausagePlanes' 

I just want to add that I promise I will fly this exclusively for a full tour as soon as it's added

Thank you for your support MK-84! 

Remember to vote Whirlwind in the next election! 

[MK-84]

Oh I will, unless the Meteor is in the vote too, that's going to be one hard decision 

[Scherf]

Don't know if this has been posted before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0COSZvwT518

Some links to Whirly project clips there as well.

I too begin to hanker for this bird.

[nrshida]

Don't know if this has been posted before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0COSZvwT518

Some links to Whirly project clips there as well.

Sound good don't they?

I too begin to hanker for this bird.

The more the merrier! 

[MK-84]

It's probably been brought up but is there any aircraft we have in AH that we could reasonably compare performance to?

[nrshida]

It's probably been brought up but is there any aircraft we have in AH that we could reasonably compare performance to?

I think there really isn't anything close. She's not fast compared to the typical LW stuff and doesn't especially climb well. The energy retention should be impressive given the weight and slippery aerodynamic shape. The wing loading doesn't seem impressive but from the pilot's manual we've gathered that the huge Fowler flap comes out at quite a high speed, probably fairly close to the corner speed. Also there is a good deal of leading edge slat, which implies great low-speed stability.

I conjecture something like a miniature P-38 / more nimble Mosquito with some flying characteristics of the C Hog, just slower. The aircraft is smaller than it appears also, not a lot bigger than a Hurricane.

[MK-84]

So I should stop wishing for the Red Ryder for Xmas and wish for this?

[Beermat]

If we one day get the Crikey added to Aces High, perhaps you could also give us a mention on your website. Some of us would be more than willing to give training to members of the project as a special gesture (this game has a very steep learning curve). Just have them quote the special secret discount code: '219DownWithSausagePlanes' 

Of course!