Westland Whirlwind

[Reaper90]

Spitfire Mk Ia most likely.

^This^. Slow by LW standards, but think of the Whirlwind as a bastard child of a Hurri I and a Mossie, with Ki-84 flaps.

Actually played a significant part in the early defense of England, but was relegated to anti-shipping roles and ground attack until the squadrons that flew it were forced to give it up and go to the Typhoon.... a change most of the pilots hated. The Whirlwind was loved by its pilots, and not surprisingly did very well against 109's and 190's when they encountered them.

[Karnak]

The Whirlwind used Rolls-Royce Kestrel engines that were at the end of their development potential and were unreliable.  Westland's decision to use Kestrels left no development path forward that didn't require extensive and expensive redesign to use the heavier Merlin engines.  That doomed the Whirlwind's longtime viability.

[Reaper90]

[Reaper90]

The Whirlwind used Rolls-Royce Kestrel engines that were at the end of their development potential and were unreliable.  Westland's decision to use Kestrels left no development path forward that didn't require extensive and expensive redesign to use the heavier Merlin engines.  That doomed the Whirlwind's longtime viability.

See Westland Welkin.

In all of the books I've read on the Whirlwind, the reliability of the Kestrel was never mentioned as a problem. Power (or lack thereof) and further development potential, yes. But not reliability and serviceability. A lot of what killed the Whirlwind was politics, too, and inept company management.

The reality is, though, the pilots that flew them loved them. They did very well with them in very high risk missions, fared well against the German fighters they encountered, and ultimately decried being forced out of them when they transitioned to Typhoons. They loved their Whirlwinds, and with good reason.

Later development doesn't matter much when you consider the Whirlwind's actual contribution while it was in service. The Brewster didn't have much future beyond EW, yet it's contribution was enough to warrant addition, and it's no hanger queen. The Whirlwind would be just as deserving, IMHO. And would likely be just as widely used, maybe more.

[Reaper90]

[Karnak]

Reaper90,

I was not arguing against the Whirlwind.  I think it has a place in AH, though it is not at the top of my list of what I think should be added but it is on it.

[bozon]

I'd love to see this plane in the game. It looks like a mossie that has not been fed enough.

This is a good example of an unusual plane (i.e. not in many games) that gave a good historical combat record, early war, and that will not be a total hangar queen. There are some even more historucally significant planes to add, but this one can take a respectable place near the top of the queue.

[Baggy]

Nitpicking I know but the engine used in the Whirlwind was the Peregrine - developed from the Kestrel. Would like to see this in game one day - if we could have it in about 2 weeks that would be fine.

[Reaper90]

 

You're absolutely right..... Peregrine. I haven't really read anything Whirlwind related in about a year, didn't even think too much when I quoted Karnak...

[Karnak]

Oops. I was going off of memory and got Kestrel in my mind.  Yes, Peregrine.

I do recall reading it had reliability issues though, one of the main things that kept its role in the Battle of Britain to a minimum.  It surely would have been useful there.

I do think the Beaufighter, Tu-2 and SM.79-II would be higher on the list, but should a screenshot of it appear on the front page I'll do do nothing but make positive comments.

[nrshida]

For shame, Kestrel engine. Well done Baggy 

Of course there is a lot of assertion about the priority on the Wishlist over what is needed for historical representation and the Whirlwind qualifies for this too, especially to eccentric ex pats who get all misty eyed for days gone bye, sniff.

But actually I think for a (really) early war bird it would have some very interesting attributes. The slippery shape and weight promise excellent energy retention, and those slats and smallish twin engines suggest vertical stability to rival the 190s. Then there's that gun package which will provide for a lot of shortcomings of speed and climb rate. Now to mention the almost 1940s Tomcat-like mode changing between slats and flap retracted and deployed.

I think the speed would restrict its competitiveness against faster birds, and it would likely always be a cult aircraft, but boy are we going to keep them honest if they ever mix it up with us   

[nrshida]

Also Reaper, fantastic pictures. The chap in the second one has the word 'blimey' written all over his face 

[No9Squadron]

One word: Beaufighter. Pearls before swine as they say...

Whirlwind was basically a rhubarb plane mainly in 42/43, I don't recall it being operational in 44 and afaik it operated across the English Channel and nowhere else. It's not a no, but it's way behind Beaufighter and Catalina, but well in front of Boulton Paul Defiant. I'd probably have to place it behind Swordfish in terms of history made, e.g. Taranto/Bismarck, but it does make a nice alternative to Spit5 and Hurri.

 

[nrshida]

Cobblers! 

[No9Squadron]

Well I agree with you that wikipedia can be cobblers...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Whirlwind_(fighter)

but it does say it ended service in 1943 and only 2 squadrons flew it. 6000 Beaufighters were built, I'm not sure if that includes the DAP Beaufighter. Still I don't disagree, it's a lovely plane and would look good in AH.