Ta 152

[STEELE]

I'm wondering if the CoG is correct on this plane, evrything I read about it goes something like this quote:
The thing that has to be remembered about the Ta152 is that it was designed to fight at very high altitudes. In particular, it was designed to stall fight. The Ta152 wing is not only uniquie in its huge span, but also in that it is twisted, the wing near the root has more angle of attack than the near the wing tip. The reason for doing this was so when stalling out in a climb, as the plane fell through the stall, part of the airfoil would still be effective (air flowing over the ailerons), allowing roll control through more of the stall manuver. This would allow a Ta152 pilot to climb hard and then flip over and effectively attack an enemy that was chasing it, presumably as it was also nearing stall and had little control. Combine with the ability to engage SEP to ensure it would not be caught in such a climb, this sorta makes sense. However this assumes the enemy is unaware of the capabilities of the Ta, which would only be true for a short while had this plane been used in significant numbers.

In AH, If we tried this maneuver, we would fall tail-down for 10-15k.   Thoughts?

[Blooz]

Yup, I have thoughts.

I doubt you'd like to see them.

[kilo2]

I'm wondering if the CoG is correct on this plane, evrything I read about it goes something like this quote:
The thing that has to be remembered about the Ta152 is that it was designed to fight at very high altitudes. In particular, it was designed to stall fight. The Ta152 wing is not only uniquie in its huge span, but also in that it is twisted, the wing near the root has more angle of attack than the near the wing tip. The reason for doing this was so when stalling out in a climb, as the plane fell through the stall, part of the airfoil would still be effective (air flowing over the ailerons), allowing roll control through more of the stall manuver. This would allow a Ta152 pilot to climb hard and then flip over and effectively attack an enemy that was chasing it, presumably as it was also nearing stall and had little control. Combine with the ability to engage SEP to ensure it would not be caught in such a climb, this sorta makes sense. However this assumes the enemy is unaware of the capabilities of the Ta, which would only be true for a short while had this plane been used in significant numbers.

In AH, If we tried this maneuver, we would fall tail-down for 10-15k.   Thoughts?

You can do it. Made many kills doing it.

[BnZs]

This twist called "washout", it is a common design feature on airplane wings, it is there to make stalls less vicious (in particular, make one less likely to do an unintentional snaproll) not to allow any super secret special maneuver.

The downside of washout is that in straight-and-level flight there will always be somewhat more drag than with an untwisted wing.

[Karnak]

This twist called "washout", it is a common design feature on airplane wings, it is there to make stalls less vicious (in particular, make one less likely to do an unintentional snaproll) not to allow any super secret special maneuver.

The downside of washout is that in straight-and-level flight there will always be somewhat more drag than with an untwisted wing.

++

Spitfires, back to the Mk I, also had this "unique" feature of the Ta152.

[BnZs]

++

Spitfires, back to the Mk I, also had this "unique" feature of the Ta152.

Yeah. Leading edge slats are designed to do the same thing, when they are not asymmetrically deploying at any rate. 

[STEELE]

This twist called "washout", it is a common design feature on airplane wings, it is there to make stalls less vicious (in particular, make one less likely to do an unintentional snaproll) not to allow any super secret special maneuver.

The downside of washout is that in straight-and-level flight there will always be somewhat more drag than with an untwisted wing.

Yeah, that's fine and good, but does it cause a tail-down stall thats almost impossible to recover within 10k feet?  I doubt it.  (yes I drain the aft tank first, helps very little)

Yup, I have thoughts.

I doubt you'd like to see them.

Wrong, I'd love to see them      One more thing about the 152, notice the A8 and D9 and 152 all have taller canopies, (more bubble towards the rear)yet the pilot's head dont seem to move any higher than the A5 (to me, I may be wrong tho)

[Stoney]

Almost all aircraft in the game had washout, but its not part of the design to help the plane fight better--its there to better its stall characteristics.  And no, it will not cause a tail stall.  I don't understand your overall question though.  You say you think the CG is wrong?  Why?  Because the aircraft tail stalls?

[hitech]

This twist called "washout", it is a common design feature on airplane wings, it is there to make stalls less vicious (in particular, make one less likely to do an unintentional snaproll) not to allow any super secret special maneuver.

The downside of washout is that in straight-and-level flight there will always be somewhat more drag than with an untwisted wing.

The other downside is that Max LCO is lowered I.E. stall speed is increased.

HiTech

[Debrody]

So this is why its so hard to keep the flaps opened at low altitudes...

[Krusty]

I don't think there's any reason for that other than you're going too fast. Huge powerful late-war monster engine coupled with high speed airframe, this ride can easily accelerate past max flaps speed before you know it.

[Krusty]

I don't understand your overall question though.  You say you think the CG is wrong?  Why?  Because the aircraft tail stalls?

Many have commented on the instability of the Ta152 since AH2 was released. In AH1 it was much more like a dora. Okay, not quite... But it was easier to fly. It turned as you could expect but when you just nosed it up it kept going. It was an interesting and unique plane to fly.

In AH2 as soon as we got it here, all of a sudden the tail skids out every direction with the smallest of inputs. You bank even a few degrees and you peg the slip indicator (forgive the exaggeration to drive a point home). It had a longer tail, it had a LARGER tail. It was a more effective stabilizer than on previos 190 models, and yet our in-game model is rather...

How shall I say it...


Terrible to fly.

[Debrody]

I don't think there's any reason for that other than you're going too fast. Huge powerful late-war monster engine coupled with high speed airframe, this ride can easily accelerate past max flaps speed before you know it.

190s are the only planes what have difficulties with opening the flaps in a flat sustained using full engine power, and the 152 dont "feel" better for me even tho it has much larger wings.

[Krusty]

Only thing I can say is they feel just like opening flaps on any other split-flap design not meant for anything other than landing. Feels like P-40, spit, and other types, IMO.

[BnZs]

Adverse yaw is greater with a high aspect ratio wing. Not saying the Ta-152 is "right", just suggesting a possibility.