Author Topic: Horde management, please  (Read 2497 times)

Offline alpini13

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2011, 10:59:08 PM »
i guess we gripped about the japanese horde on dec,7 1941,and the germans gripped about the horde on june 6 1944 a and the russians gripped about the horde when the germans invaded them in 1941...only one thing you can do when you are on the receiving end of the horde...HAVE SOME CHEESE TO GO WITH YOUR WHINE!,LOL

Offline JUGgler

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2011, 12:33:24 AM »

As the game is now EVERYONE likes to attack.
If there is no defense and only offense there isn't much fun either.


This is why I thought of having some sort of delay from when troops go in the map room until the base actually changes hands. This delay is the moment in all offensive operations where the original defender could mount a counter attack and retake what they are losing before the victors can consolidate their gain. This idea also "for a brief 15-30 minutes" turns the original defenders into "counter attackers" thereby being offensive in nature.

My idea brings out the best for all concerned as the defenders wouldn't feel they were defending in vain, they would be prolonging the fight till the counter attackers arrived. You would no longer have 40 hordlings over a single base as some of them would be needed to go and challenge the "counter attackers" with interdiction. Less boredom for the 40 hordlings and more motivation for more peeps to get involved on both sides!

You are correct Fugitive that the attackers have all the cards in most instances. Why would anyone play poker with the knowledge your opponent always is holding 3 aces? It is the same concept for the defenders in AH 



 :salute




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Offline Ardy123

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2011, 01:51:41 AM »
To be frank, the hordes have encouraged me to take a break from the game, there is no sense of accomplishment from wining in a horde and no sense of loss from loosing to a horde (its like repeatedly picking up  a box, at first, its fun to see how many time you can lift it, shortly there after, it gets old).

I think a local perk modifier, such that if a plane is shot down in a location where the the 'red' out number the 'green', a reduction of perks is granted....

(red guys)/(green guys) * (normal perks given) =  perks attained.  

This would discourage people from large out numbered hordes, and encourage people to fight against the horde. Don't get me wrong, I know I have stated I enjoy fighting the horde, and sometimes its fun, but it got old, I prefer horde on horde.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 01:59:31 AM by Ardy123 »
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2011, 03:26:29 AM »
Maybe most of us don't have your skill at reading the twists and trends of the map.

I hate the horde.

(...)

Why would you leave Lusche, game would be too easy for you?


No.

Because the large dar circles massively helped the attacker and the hords, and did hurt the defending side more than it helped.
In practice, almost every base on the maps had been covered by at least one, often several enemy dars. That means the attacking side had most of the time full dar coverage over the target base and surrounding area right to the ground. Right now I'm not "afraid" to fly alone into a sector with a full red darbar and few to none friendlies. I go bomber and goon hunting, hoping to buy some additional time for my side to mount a proper defense. I do have a chance, as players in a swarm have relatively low SA, and I can use hit and run tactics, come from unexpected angles or fly on the deck.
When we had the large dar circles, this was basically impossible, as the attackers had full dar coverage most of the time and could easily spot my single dot on the map. Their goons could evade early, their fighter horde could always track me down. The large dar actively discouraged players flying alone and facing large odds in base defense.





« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 04:43:07 AM by Lusche »
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Offline Debrody

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2011, 03:30:48 AM »
Stop for a second... for you what is fun in the game?
- For me, its ACM, and/or wingmen tactics. I can find them in the few vs few fights, what can be pretty much fun (again, at least for me). I mean an about 5v5.
- If your side has way superior numbers to the enemy, you wont find any interaction with other players but jump into the 10v1 as a 11th. As Juggler mentioned, the most you can shoot at is a field ack or a *static* town building. wooohooo, its sooo much fun, isnt it? ...
- If your side has very inferior numbers to the enemy, you wont live very long unless you are in a very fast plane, tempest or 262. The only thing you can do is pick and run, otherwise you die very soon. It can be fun, but not as much as ACM.
- In a many vs many situation a lot of people can find fun. If you have a fast ride, you can jump into the middle, pick n run and escape if you like it. If you wanna turn, bait you opponent at the edge of the furball. Fun is granted in either way. There wont be 10v1s couse your countrymen will try to help you out, and the gangers get picked soon.

Whats the conclusion? The even fights are the most fun ones, let it be one vs one, few vs few, many vs many. Whats the problem? The large majority only wanna attack, come in way superior numbers, kill everyone flying straight, and not even doing a <insert a random ACM here> for a whole week.
 :salute
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Offline Letalis

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2011, 04:16:00 AM »
This thread happens every year...
 :noid
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 05:41:48 AM by Letalis »
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Offline Letalis

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2011, 04:49:47 AM »
It's summer. There are a LOT of players out there who know little about ACM and would happily go a week without a real fight. I bet a guy with a .17 k/d is probably pretty frustrated with AH and rightly so. 1v1s are NOT his thing.  Mob tactics are the logical fix (conscious or not)-safety in numbers. Later there is a natural progression as a player's repertoire grows. Go to the blob for base takes, go to the blob for furballs because that's where your best chance for fun is. Simple. On one hand you have the vets who enjoy the 1 on 1 they'll win 95% of the time and on the other you have the blobbers "making a difference" rolling bases despite their lack of ACM skills.

The psychology will never change...apples and oranges in the same barrel.  Gameplay mechanics are the fix.

Methinks the typical summer outcry is due in part to skilled, disorganized vets finding themselves ganged 5v1 by "their inferiors." Every FPH was a noob at some point.  Accommodate the blob, love the blob, shoot the blob. :rock My take is that the DA is there for 1v1 and the MA is a blobb'in cage fight, for better or worse.  

Lusche is right. I hated the large DAR as well.  Nobody wants to commit suicide vs a horde then or now. But what about a viable counterattack option? Debrody is right- there's the most fun to be had in parity. Fugitive was kinda on to something but I'm coming at it from a different angle:

What if towns did not rebuild without being resupped?  What if auto-ack didn't pop the second a capture was made? What if ack, hangars etc didn't regen for a half hour post-capture?

I think the consequences would be:
1. More towns vulnerable to immediate counterattack.  
2. More attackers being required to stay at a base to defend it/consolidate the gain instead of mobbing the next base. If they do just mob the next base, some loner in a goon will show them the futility of their thinking. Taking too many bases too quickly would quickly result in overextending.
3. The chance for a successful counterattack from another base would be better for the defenders so it would be attempted.  People take the path of least resistance.  
Which is easier?
A: The leveled base a single M3 away from a retake and defended by enemy at an equal range to it from you.
OR
B. A full-up enemy base requiring ords, cap, M3/goon all in his backyard.  Bases would actually be contested longer than they are now, promoting stabilized fights in relatively neutral territory. (Parity)
4. Since more bases can be contested at once, the player base would be slightly more spread out and more organized than before.  The more spread out, (in theory) the closer you get to even ratios and hence even fights. (Parity)

Discuss.  :salute
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 05:40:37 AM by Letalis »
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #52 on: June 07, 2011, 05:49:06 PM »
i guess we gripped about the japanese horde on dec,7 1941,and the germans gripped about the horde on june 6 1944 a and the russians gripped about the horde when the germans invaded them in 1941...only one thing you can do when you are on the receiving end of the horde...HAVE SOME CHEESE TO GO WITH YOUR WHINE!,LOL

Ya and when we got tired of the hordes we dropped a couple of nukes and the hordes disappeared. In the GAME we don't have that option penalize team for hording by bringing them to their knees. Again comparing this game to WWII is about as dumb as it gets.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #53 on: June 07, 2011, 05:52:14 PM »
 :lol   :rofl   :lol   :rofl  looks like juggler is going to have more hordes to  :cry about with the new single arena...  :lol
jarhed  
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Offline LLogann

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #54 on: June 07, 2011, 06:01:42 PM »
Heck Bro, I'll trade you some buff perks for your fighter perks.  I have about 7000 bomber perks and about 7000 crashed 262's.   :lol


EDIT: The above was in reference to making fighter perks, but making bomber perks is even harder! I STILL can't afford a formation of B-29s!
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Offline lyric1

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #55 on: June 07, 2011, 06:20:14 PM »
Either give them more to do or give defenders a reason to contest the uber hordes.

It can't be very healthy or fun to be in a 30+ plane gaggle with nothing to shoot at but buildings and a JUG, I am unselfishly thinking of the health and wellfare of the uber horde. Please help me save them  :bhead

50+ front line bases and half of one country is at ONE base<------ really?


 :salute



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Offline JUGgler

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #56 on: June 07, 2011, 06:43:11 PM »
:lol   :rofl   :lol   :rofl  looks like juggler is going to have more hordes to  :cry about with the new single arena...  :lol


I thought there was something stuck to my shoe, scra----------------------------------------------pe!


That's better!


JUGgler
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 06:49:24 PM by JUGgler »
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Offline LLogann

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #57 on: June 07, 2011, 08:37:07 PM »
When I up against "the horde" I start a timer.  I keep two separate timelines, one is upping from the capped base, the other is upping from the next base over.  I fly the Mossie from the other base.  Or an La7/Spixteen/HurriC from a capped base.  (I hope I don't need to explain the difference between those two bases and the diff in planeset)

I keep track of how long it takes for them to kill me.  I've been tracking it for years now.  From the capped base - Back then, on average it took me 14 seconds to die.  Now it takes about 85 seconds.  Back then I got one kill every third sortie, now I kill two hordie's per sortie.

If you don't think fighting the horde makes you better.... You're just a DumbPilot.

Quote from: DumbPilot
I'm afraid of the hunt.
I'm afraid to get better.
I'm scared to up against 5 enemies...Heaven forbid there are 20 of them.
I'd rather come on the forum and complain (because all of these people listen, and care about me)
I'm going to threaten quitting.
I'm going to not play.

I am too big a PanzyBoy to ever try and fight the horde! I'd rather fish for attention here.

EDIT:  And if the horde is just breaking the darBar.....  Why arent you upping the other direction, grab a little ALT and swing back from only 8 or 9k?  In those 2 minutes 40 seconds you will have a stored E advantage against all the jacko's taking town down.  
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 09:16:26 PM by LLogann »
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Offline Letalis

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #58 on: June 07, 2011, 10:16:47 PM »
Ah yes. Duh.  The obvious perfect resolution for this thread is a devolution into personal attacks and the same...stupid....squabbling year after year.  Let's just get rid of/insult the other guy that doesn't play the way YOU want. Heaven forbid the effort of thinking about a "win win" solution take place....oh my poor head...yes, insults are most certainly easier and more rewarding.   :t
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Offline LLogann

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Re: Horde management, please
« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2011, 11:25:40 PM »
Who you talking to?

BTW.... You spelled LETHALITY wrong in your sig.  Might want to fix that.

EDIT:  LMAO - You even started a squad with the mispelling... HAHAHAHAHAHA
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=314320.0

And how on Earth do you call my previous post personal?  You relate to the DumbPilot?  I simply speak about the error in some of our thinking.  

Quote from: Supposed3StarGeneralOfTheUSAF
"The difference between the cop wielding a gun on the street and what you do as an Air Force pilot is LETALITY!"
- USAF 3-Star Addressing AFROTC Cadets, Fall 2002

It's also not a very good quote to use... If you think about it.  


« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 11:37:26 PM by LLogann »
See Rule #4
Now I only pay because of my friends.