Mustang on the Endangered List (Cap)

[CAP1]

Just curious, what happens to those numbers when you add Firebirds and Trans Ams to the Camaro's numbers?

<---- knows that when you add Chevy 1500 trucks and GMC 1500 trucks, Chevy sells more trucks than Ford, regardless of what the commercials say.....  

 if the firebirds and trans ams had chevy engines in em, i'd lend credence to that argument.


 my personal taste in trucks has been that i like chevys. my work experience tells me though, that if i'm gonna buy myself a heavy duty truck, or van, i'm buying a ford.

[CAP1]

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)<----10 second from factory
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(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)<---mine
(Image removed from quote.)<-----badass

last but not least this car sold for 2.2 million dollars which ford or chevy even comes close to that
(Image removed from quote.)

 that yellow car.....there's one sitting in a guys driveway....been there for at least 3 years, without moving. ever. looks in decent shape from the road.....

[CAP1]

Ok, add a couple of million.  However, do we count Capri's for Ford?   Wait.....

cougers, and capris had ford engines in them.....so if we wanted to play their game, we could add them. firebirds had pontiac, and later oldsmobile engines in em. didn't they toss buick engines in them too?

 i guess we could give them a few more, from the beginning of the canadian era firebirds though.


 btw,.......from my experience with 60's camaro and firebirds.......i'd take the pontiac torque over chevy hands down.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

i've driven a couple 409 impalas. we nick named them "limpala" they were that exciting.

 steve mcqueen didn't make the mustang look good. it already did. they held the charger back, so he could stay close though. it was faster. i can't remember if it was a 383 ot 440 car......

 and look at the numbers. 15 second 1/4 mile? 

You've never driven a real 409 Impala then. The 409 Impala was the main reason Ford had to go to Dearborn Steel Tubing and have them build a Fairlane into a T-Bolt. Pretty much because, as has been the case for decades, Ford needs to hire someone to build them a race car so they can compete with a Chevrolet production car.

[CAP1]

You've never driven a real 409 Impala then. The 409 Impala was the main reason Ford had to go to Dearborn Steel Tubing and have them build a Fairlane into a T-Bolt. Pretty much because, as has been the case for decades, Ford needs to hire someone to build them a race car so they can compete with a Chevrolet production car.

 on that argument....i'd say that is their business model. there's a reason or 5 that ford didn't need any money when the govt handed it out.  

 BTW....keep on dodging. 

[Shuffler]

on that argument....i'd say that is their business model. there's a reason or 5 that ford didn't need any money when the govt handed it out.  

 BTW....keep on dodging. 

Ford didn't need money?? ... hehe they did it was just called something other than a bailout.

[morfiend]

 Hilts,

  I've read what you've said and think your right,Steve did make the stang look good.....



  From the sounds of things we're close in age as I was around to see all those cars back in the day,unfortunately we had a big old Buick wildcat with a 430 4v so it wasnt really a "muscle" car. I have to agree with your assesment,even though I'm a die hard old school ford guy I think Chev put the better cars on the road and from the factory!

 Sure the Mopars had the pure grunt but most couldnt put all that torque to the ground,well not with street tires.The chev's were quick,you could get them to hook up easy and most the good engines were tops in class.The clasic 390 vs 396 is the best example,380 had what 335 hp,forgive me Skuzzy,while the econobox 396 was pushing 350hp. And we should all know the 396 was just an updated 409,and tell me how many songs were written about......289's??


  So as hard as it is for me to say,in truth, I must agree with Hilts's assesments,and ya the hot cat was the 396 nova,cheap but quick,the impala SS especially the early 64 to 67 models were about the nicest cars on the road.

 Now the Polara Hemi was something else,outright brute force but they just couldnt hookup and stay straight....



    

[Babalonian]

the only time i've ever thought that a charger(the new ones) looked intimidating, was when i noticed those red n blue lights hidden behind the grille. other than that, the new chargers are a big fail. the challenger could be so much better than it is........

Hate to almost ask, but what happened to the Chargers?  I havent seen the few ones law enforcement around here got last year anymore, and similarly they've been dropping like flies off the street when before and not too long ago they were hot cakes.

[CAP1]

Hate to almost ask, but what happened to the Chargers?  I havent seen the few ones law enforcement around here got last year anymore, and similarly they've been dropping like flies off the street when before and not too long ago they were hot cakes.

 they're big, fat, ugly, underpowered, and slow.

 the njspd have a few of them, along with durangos. for marked cruisers, they still use real cars. 

[Babalonian]

they're big, fat, ugly, underpowered, and slow.

 the njspd have a few of them, along with durangos. for marked cruisers, they still use real cars. 

So it's along the lines of what I was thinking, they must of gotten over the new and shiny factor pretty quickly and settled back in with their standard cruisers because they liked them better.  I was first thinking it was a serious flaw or defect in them since they seriously suddenly dropped off the streets like flies.

[CAP1]

So it's along the lines of what I was thinking, they must of gotten over the new and shiny factor pretty quickly and settled back in with their standard cruisers because they liked them better.  I was first thinking it was a serious flaw or defect in them since they seriously suddenly dropped off the streets like flies.

 in the case of nj, i don't think i've ever seen a marked charger. i think they bought them only for unmarked usage. philly police have quite a few of them gthough.

 

[Tyrannis]

the new 2011 chargers just came out.


you can call em ugly if you want, but you wont find any other car out there with a more intimidating look than the chargers (except maybe the vipers)

[CAP1]

the new 2011 chargers just came out.


you can call em ugly if you want, but you wont find any other car out there with a more intimidating look than the chargers (except maybe the vipers)

 both the camaros, and mustangs are much more intimidating looking.

 of course, nothing can top the intimidation factor of a crown vic with blue/red lights comin up in your rear view mirror. 

[Bronk]

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/11/2013-ford-taurus-police-interceptor-shows-its-face/




 

I'll take one please.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

The 396 is not really a true derivative of the W series engines. Yes, they shame the same basic bore spacing, and the same main bearing spacing. The rocker arms and the valve sizes in the high performance engines are the same. Only the rocker arms and rocker studs actually interchange, although you can use spacers to put a 409 crank in a 427 block (not to be confused with the W series Z-11 427 built in 1963) to destroke it.

And the "mystery motor" is yet another piece, it does not share that much with either the W series or the "rat motor". Yes, a "mystery motor" (outlawed by NASCAR) looks like a "rat motor", but it is not.

However, the W series engines were derived from medium truck engines, namely the original 348. That's the source of the real weakness of the 409 engines, piston and wrist pin weight. Had it not been for those two pieces being insanely heavy, the 409 would have been able to run at an even higher RPM and made far more HP. It's amazing what the 409 did achieve considering it was designed to power 2 ton trucks, and be governed at 4500 RPM.

A 409 has no combustion chamber in the head, the chamber is in the piston, that makes the piston extremely heavy. It does however make the valves unshroud almost instantly when they come off of the seat, which creates massive flow capabilities. Had Chevrolet been able to create a hollow "dome" style forging, and a tool steel wrist pin, the RPM limit of the 409 would have exceeded 7500 instead of being 6500. There's an easy 50HP there, making my old 409-425 (which actually made near 500) a true 525+HP engine.

The 396 was really a "clean sheet of paper" compared to the W series, although it shares some minor similarity. With a canted valve wedge type cylinder head (the most advanced of its time in the US), a forged crank, forged rods, and forged pistons, it was a true race bred piece. The second year of production yielded the 427/425, which was easily as powerful with one 780 Holley as anything Ford could build with 2 600 Holleys.