Roll Rate..

[Tr1gg22]

I thought it would be a good idea to discuss the advantages of a superior roll rate... I myself have a descent idea on the advantages of a good roll rate... Although have a problem utilizing it's advantages... The 190d for example.. When I try to utilize the roll rate I lose E quick and then BAMM!!!!! Dead .. SO I just find myself trying to E fight instead of trying to reverse.. I watched an original training video on pony's years back.. I think it was on Zino's ,or something like that stating that the pony had the best roll rate only second to the 190..So I am guessing that it was important in air to air combat..I guess the real question is if you are in a turny bird like the zeke and had the   roll rate of a 190 the advantages are unreal.. But if you are in a plane like the 190 witch actually has the good roll rate; how do you utilize it to your advantage since it is not that maneuverable in a flat turn?

[Mongoose]

  I'm not good enough to give you details on specific maneuvers.  But I do not that a good roll rate means you can switch from one maneuver to another faster.  If you can switch from a right turn to a left turn faster than your opponent, you have the advantage, if you can learn to use it correctly.

[Mar]

"Getting out of phase" is important when you have someone on your six following your every move. He may be able to turn better, but that won't mean anything if he can't turn in the right direction in time. By timing your direction changes, and being careful not to fly in front of his guns, you can get farther and farther away from his nose.

Staying out of his guns requires a LOT of experience on both ends of the fight so you can know where your opponent can and can't put his nose right now, so you can just keep flying to where he can't.

I hope you can understand that and I don't end up looking like a daydreaming idiot...

[Tr1gg22]

"Getting out of phase" is important when you have someone on your six following your every move. He may be able to turn better, but that won't mean anything if he can't turn in the right direction in time. By timing your direction changes, and being careful not to fly in front of his guns, you can get farther and farther away from his nose.

Staying out of his guns requires a LOT of experience on both ends of the fight so you can know where your opponent can and can't put his nose right now, so you can just keep flying to where he can't.

I hope you can understand that and I don't end up looking like a daydreaming idiot...

I understand the idea of a good roll roll rate.. Ty for the reply and u do not look like a daydreaming idiot 

[JOACH1M]

190's don't turn well, roll rate is all they got. You GOT! to cut throttle and try to roll and kick rudder to get to fly in from of u. I'll make sure to post films about how to use the roll rate to a advantage

[Tr1gg22]

190's don't turn well, roll rate is all they got. You GOT! to cut throttle and try to roll and kick rudder to get to fly in from of u. I'll make sure to post films about how to use the roll rate to a advantage

Perfect

[Wayout]

Lag displacement roll or the barrel roll attack.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guVMVY2C6mM

The faster the roll rate the better this works.

[GNucks]

What I did against a C.205 in a P-47D-25 a while ago (most thrilling 1v1 I've ever had) was use the roll rate to fish him closer and closer until I could pull a 'Top Gun' and force an overshoot. You could use the roll rate to dodge the guns and try to extend, or you can use it to bring him in closer and closer with as little risk to your hind-side as possible. If you can't out-turn or out-run (or don't want to out-run  ) the overshoot's all you got.
Well, I guess there's the vertical too  , and the Dora should be able to handle that better than most.

http://www.mediafire.com/?a3yssgaw9re6kt7

[Karnak]

Be aware that the P-51 does not have the second best roll rate.  The F4U, P-38L, Ki-84 and Spitfire Mk XVI will all out roll it at some, or all, speeds.

There may be others as well, but those are the ones that jump out at me.

[Klam]

When in certain planes, there is a situation where if I pull too hard in a turn, the plane will insantly roll out.  I have found I can stop the roll continuing by chopping throttle.   What is this called?
It doesn't seem to work in all planes to the same degree of violence, are there any combat applications for this?
Say, a good turning plane which doesn't roll too well, being able to use this in combat.
   

[Qrsu]

When in certain planes, there is a situation where if I pull too hard in a turn, the plane will insantly roll out.  I have found I can stop the roll continuing by chopping throttle.   What is this called?
It doesn't seem to work in all planes to the same degree of violence, are there any combat applications for this?
Say, a good turning plane which doesn't roll too well, being able to use this in combat.
  

This is a snap roll. In my experience, it has it's uses to some degree (usually in desperation). If you can control it to say snap 90 degrees in an instant to suddenly change direction, works nice when someone is locked on your six and you're trying to roll out of phase to create a rolling scissors defense (works okay in 109s). This is only my experience with it mind you.

[badhorse]

Some good info from a previous thread...

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,217103.0.html

[Puma44]

This is a snap roll. In my experience, it has it's uses to some degree (usually in desperation). If you can control it to say snap 90 degrees in an instant to suddenly change direction, works nice when someone is locked on your six and you're trying to roll out of phase to create a rolling scissors defense (works okay in 109s). This is only my experience with it mind you.

Also be aware that a snap roll will kill your energy.  It will greatly reduce your forward motion but not necessarily maneuver you out of plane with your opponent.

[Qrsu]

Also be aware that a snap roll will kill your energy.  It will greatly reduce your forward motion but not necessarily maneuver you out of plane with your opponent.

Right. I only meant the roll would set an sudden change of vector so you could pull into an out of phase offset. IE, snap roll 90 degrees and pull back to fall out of phase to create offset for a barrel roll defense.

It is by no means a substantially proper maneuver - I merely do it out of desperation when a con is ~400-200 yards from my tail.

[Puma44]

Right. I only meant the roll would set an sudden change of vector so you could pull into an out of phase offset. IE, snap roll 90 degrees and pull back to fall out of phase to create offset for a barrel roll defense.

It is by no means a substantially proper maneuver - I merely do it out of desperation when a con is ~400-200 yards from my tail.

The same thing can be accomplished by momentarily unloading, and rolling with ailerons and rudder to set the wings in a different plane of motion than your attacker and pulling your lift vector to a position of advantage.