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Author Topic: P-47 flaps  (Read 13645 times)

Offline STEELE

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P-47 flaps
« on: June 20, 2011, 10:53:12 PM »
http://rwebs.net/avhistory/opsman/pursuit/section6.htm
In this copy of the P-47 flight manual, it says never lower flaps above 197 mph.
All of our 47's can lower a notch well above 300mph. Who is correct?
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Offline oakranger

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2011, 12:51:08 AM »
They are talking about the flap while landing.  Nothing during flight.
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Offline Blagard

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2011, 10:23:16 AM »
Quote from: STEELE on June 20, 2011, 10:53:12 PM
http://rwebs.net/avhistory/opsman/pursuit/section6.htm
In this copy of the P-47 flight manual, it says never lower flaps above 197 mph.
All of our 47's can lower a notch well above 300mph. Who is correct?

Those instructions are what you should follow - When it says do not lower flaps above 197 mph it means that you shouldn't, not can't!
All aircraft have what you might consider as safe, do not exceed limits set. The truth in WWII, is you will probably do whatever you can, safety takes a back seat in combat.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2011, 11:19:42 AM »
Blagard, that's not the case. Aces High models pilot limits, not plane limits. We limit flaps settings based on POH and manuals and such.

Now the question is: Is it true? Or is it talking about full flaps, or some other qualifying comment?
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Offline Soulyss

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 12:37:39 PM »
A quick jump in the D-11 and I could get one notch of flaps out at 400mph or so, the same as the P-51. 
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Offline branch37

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2011, 12:48:10 PM »
Maybe it was talking about "landing flaps" and not "maneuvering flaps".  IIRC the P-51s and 47s have 1 notch of maneuvering flaps that can be deployed in combat to help get that extra edge of maneuvering capability.  I may be wrong though. 
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Offline STEELE

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2011, 08:02:43 PM »
Quote from: Krusty on June 21, 2011, 11:19:42 AM
Blagard, that's not the case. Aces High models pilot limits, not plane limits. We limit flaps settings based on POH and manuals and such.

Now the question is: Is it true? Or is it talking about full flaps, or some other qualifying comment?
What I find funny is that 190/109 flaps just plain wont come out over 200mph, and when U do get them out, they auto-retract as soon as U hit 200 again.
 :bhead
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Quote from: Masherbrum on November 18, 2009, 08:32:43 AM
The Kanonenvogel had 6 rounds per pod, this is not even close to being open for debate.

Offline Karnak

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2011, 08:08:40 PM »
Quote from: STEELE on June 21, 2011, 08:02:43 PM
What I find funny is that 190/109 flaps just plain wont come out over 200mph, and when U do get them out, they auto-retract as soon as U hit 200 again.
 :bhead
And?  It is 168mph for the Ki-84's combat setting.  All aircraft in AH are supposed to follow their pilots handbook limitations.

Personally I think there is unrecorded information and the first position for the landing settings was limited to 168 on the Ki-84 and the combat limit was higher, but I have no idea if supporting info even exists.
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Offline Stoney

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2011, 09:29:57 PM »
By now Steele, you should know that its part of the HTC Conspiracy to pork Luftwaffe planes and buff U.S. rides to play towards the preconceptions of the majority U.S. player base...

Research requires looking at more than one resource before forming an opinion...
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Offline Charge

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2011, 01:48:59 AM »
What is the difference in flap designs to enable others to deploy only at <200mph and others at 400mph?

I'd does seem that it is an artificial limitation based on manual recommendations, not the actual structure and its strength since that kind of data is hard to get.

If one manual says 197 mph for P47, it should ring a bell, even if it is just one source. IMO it does give certain planes an unfair advantage unless it can be verified from somewhere that those American planes really did have an exceptional flap arrangement compared to other planes of the era.

-C+
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Offline FLS

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 04:40:57 AM »
The OP didn't reference a manual, he referenced a web page. There's a P-47N manual in the AHWiki.
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Offline Charge

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2011, 06:21:03 AM »
The manual for B, C, D, and G says "never lower flaps above 195 mph".

-C+
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Offline FLS

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 07:36:36 AM »
Quote from: Charge on June 22, 2011, 06:21:03 AM
The manual for B, C, D, and G says "never lower flaps above 195 mph".

-C+

You might note that the warning is part of the landing instructions.
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 07:56:59 AM »
Quote from: FLS on June 22, 2011, 07:36:36 AM
You might note that the warning is part of the landing instructions.


Why would that make a difference?

No claim to expert status here, but the only WWII fighter I've read about that used flaps in combat was the P-51, which had flaps specially designed for that purpose.  Certainly I haven't come across anything like the widespread use of flaps we see in AH.

- oldman
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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: P-47 flaps
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 07:57:30 AM »
Quote from: FLS on June 22, 2011, 04:40:57 AM
The OP didn't reference a manual, he referenced a web page.

thats just a transcript of the pilot notes for the -B, -C, -D and -G which matches my copy (01-65BC-1). it also says that extending flaps trims the aircraft slightly nose-down. there is no mention at all of using flaps for maneuvering in there apart from landing and takeoff. same with the -N manual.

one more thing makes me wonder if flaps were used in ACM - the flap lever isnt notched like on eg. a cessna, its a hydraulic system and the lever gives you more or less flap with a neutral position in the middle. you nudge the flaps up or down, checking the amount of extension using the 10o markings on the flaps' leading edges, and making sure its the same extension on both wings. not the kind of thing you would want to do with people shooting at you ...
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