Author Topic: F-35  (Read 1910 times)

Offline eagl

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Re: F-35
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2011, 06:33:17 AM »
Hey Eagl.. what's your take on the 16?  I used to help build them so I have a soft spot for them.  I'd like an honest opinion from somebody I know and respect. 

It's a nice plane.  It has some limitations like endurance and range, but overall it's fairly capable considering not only what it was intended to do (be a lightweight short range good weather fighter) but what it grew into.

I do think that it's a bit small for some of the missions it has grown into though.  For example, as a wild weasel it really ought to be able to go in before the strike package and hang out until everyone leaves, but sometimes it just doesn't have the gas to hang out.  And it's weapon payload isn't all that big which means more sorties or limits on the tactics.

And that's pretty much the major gripes against the viper as far as I know...  Limited endurance due to not enough gas, and limited weapon payload.  Oddly enough, the competitor against the F-16 was the F-18, and after the Navy ended up buying the F-18, they had the same gripes with the hornet.  So they grew it into the superhornet to directly address those gripes.  Of course, that meant that the superhornet is almost as big as an F-15 :)
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Offline Wildcat1

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Re: F-35
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2011, 07:49:36 AM »
I have two questions:

1.) Who needs stealth if your enemy doesn't have radar?
2.) In addition, it seems that those enemies that have radar also have nuclear weapons, thereby making conventional war (or any war for that matter) impossible.

Perhaps I am wrong, but at 3:00 AM, fact and fiction blur into one.

-Penguin

he's BAAAAACK!!!!!

I still stick to my theory that the next big war will be conventional, because no one wants to deal with the repercussions of retaliatory nuclear strikes.

The JSF will be a total failure, I can't think of any reason why it would be superior to the f-18 or especially the a-10, besides radar systems that could be easily integrated into those two airframes. I honestly think the f-16 does the job better.
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Offline beau32

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Re: F-35
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2011, 09:40:11 AM »
I work on the F-35 out here at Edwards. AF-03 is my plane.

The F-35 is actually performing better than anyone thinks or what is being told. Being such a new system that is still highly classified, they are not going to go out and say what this plane can and cant do. We have been flying alot of mission and hitting our test points with ease. It is a fun plane to work on, maintenance for the most part is just like any other plane,except for certain things.

Oh, by the way. Supposedly the serial numbers used on the F-35 are where the USAAF left off on the P-38. Just a bit of gee wiz for ya.


Here is a link with pictures from work that I posted on another forum. http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/off-topic-misc/f35-pictures-30362.html
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Offline F22RaptorDude

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Re: F-35
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2011, 10:26:11 AM »
I have two questions:

1.) Who needs stealth if your enemy doesn't have radar?
2.) In addition, it seems that those enemies that have radar also have nuclear weapons, thereby making conventional war (or any war for that matter) impossible.

Perhaps I am wrong, but at 3:00 AM, fact and fiction blur into one.

-Penguin
F22 and F35 are meant to serve in a future war with other countries as well as the one we fight now, its always good to be prepared
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Offline mensa180

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Re: F-35
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2011, 02:59:16 PM »
I have two questions:

1.) Who needs stealth if your enemy doesn't have radar?
2.) In addition, it seems that those enemies that have radar also have nuclear weapons, thereby making conventional war (or any war for that matter) impossible.

Perhaps I am wrong, but at 3:00 AM, fact and fiction blur into one.

-Penguin

MAD, most nations don't sprint to nuclear weapons use. 
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Offline Penguin

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Re: F-35
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2011, 03:02:11 PM »
These aircraft are being designed to fight a hypothetical war against a hypothetical opponent in a hypothetical future.  In addition, this hypothetical future does not include the possibility the deployment of MAD systems.  Though international tensions have eased, there is no reason to assume that these systems are not readily usable by countries that have them.  Just look at the recent scare during North Korea's ICBM test, the trigger is still a hair-pin.

We (US, UN, and NATO) also cannot waste precious resources developing weapons that might possibly be effective in an unlikely future war when the current one(s) deserve full attention.  To put it simply; World War Three, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

-Penguin

Offline mensa180

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Re: F-35
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2011, 03:10:33 PM »
edit:  I'm just snarky today.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 03:13:47 PM by mensa180 »
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Offline bj229r

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Re: F-35
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2011, 03:32:38 PM »
I have two questions:

1.) Who needs stealth if your enemy doesn't have radar?
2.) In addition, it seems that those enemies that have radar also have nuclear weapons, thereby making conventional war (or any war for that matter) impossible.

Perhaps I am wrong, but at 3:00 AM, fact and fiction blur into one.

-Penguin
A third-world country used modified radar to shoot down a F-117, and the 'conventional war is impossible' thing has been going on since Vietnam
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Offline Penguin

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Re: F-35
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2011, 03:49:47 PM »
According to wikipedia and Logan, Don. Lockheed F-117 Nighthawks: A Stealth Fighter Roll Call. Atglen, Pennsylvania: Schiffer Publishing, 2009, the Yugoslavian Army had radar, but operated at unusually long wavelengths.  I agree on that point.  So it seems that some opponents do have radar.

However, the question was do our current opponents have radar?

-Penguin

Offline morfiend

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Re: F-35
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2011, 05:47:38 PM »
^^^    yes!
                                                                           Well hypothetically they do.








    :salute



 

Offline ACE

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Re: F-35
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2011, 06:59:31 PM »
F35 can kiss my ***
Hater!  My bro is helping/helped machine parts for the 35 here at out AFB. He can't say what he made though :)
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Offline Penguin

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Re: F-35
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2011, 07:49:00 PM »
^^^    yes!
                                                                           Well hypothetically they do.








    :salute



 

However, enticing and sexy it may be to have stealth fighters (I understand completely, those things look SWEET!), the money would be better spent giving troops more drone coverage, and lightening their equipment.  I remember that a group of mountain infantry came before Congress to request that they would no longer carry artillery because it was too difficult to use in the rugged terrain.  Their alternative was to use unmanned aerial vehicles to shoot missles at the enemy.  Congress flatly denied the request, but it shows that troops need different tools to fight now than they did before.  The joint-strike fighter would be unsuitable due to its limited time over target (jet engines eat fuel) and low payload.

In addition, experience shows that "quantity has a quality all its own".  Look at the Eastern Front of World War II; the German tanks had thicker armor, larger and more accurate guns, and radios to allow better communication.  They were feared by all allied forces due to their formidable combat effectiveness.  However, they were expensive to produce, maintain, and replace.  The Soviet T-Series tanks were cheap, reliable, and easily mass-produced.  The German tank corps simply couldn't manage the sheer volume of enemies, and were subsequently overwhelmed.  This also applies to fighter aircraft.

Let's use real data, the United States has ordered 2,443 JSF's at $132,214,490 each.  For conveience's sake, let's say that the enemy is China.  Their main fighter is the $27,840,000 Chengdu-10.  For each of our JSF's, they can produce 5 Chengdu's.  That means five times the sorties, or five times the firepower, or five times the defense; however you slice it, it spells trouble for the vastly outnumbered JSF's.  However, if the United States used the
$55,000,000 FA-18E Super Hornet, we'd only be outnumberd two to one.  At that point, tactics and superior technology may win the day.

-Penguin


Offline Wildcat1

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Re: F-35
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2011, 07:57:49 PM »
Penguin, while I agree with some of your statement, for your sake make sure you don't mention actual countries as hypothetical enemies, or else you get slapped with a rule 14
having fun and getting killed since tour 110
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Offline Dichotomy

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Re: F-35
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2011, 08:09:30 PM »
It's a nice plane.  It has some limitations like endurance and range, but overall it's fairly capable considering not only what it was intended to do (be a lightweight short range good weather fighter) but what it grew into.

I do think that it's a bit small for some of the missions it has grown into though.  For example, as a wild weasel it really ought to be able to go in before the strike package and hang out until everyone leaves, but sometimes it just doesn't have the gas to hang out.  And it's weapon payload isn't all that big which means more sorties or limits on the tactics.

And that's pretty much the major gripes against the viper as far as I know...  Limited endurance due to not enough gas, and limited weapon payload.  Oddly enough, the competitor against the F-16 was the F-18, and after the Navy ended up buying the F-18, they had the same gripes with the hornet.  So they grew it into the superhornet to directly address those gripes.  Of course, that meant that the superhornet is almost as big as an F-15 :)


Gracias sir...

I was fortunate enough to work on the periphery of the AFTI and the F16XL programs which was pretty cool for a 19 year old kid that loved aircraft.  I got to play in a simulator once because I did the program manager a big favor.  Good times back then man  :aok
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Offline Vudu15

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Re: F-35
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2011, 08:24:33 PM »
uh60....................... :noid
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