Author Topic: Galloping Ghost crash  (Read 4974 times)

Offline Nypsy

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Galloping Ghost crash
« on: October 04, 2011, 06:13:41 PM »
From a mechanic friend who works at Citation Air, his theory...

Ok... here's the skinny on the accident.... A P-51 normally has two trim
tabs.. one on each elevator... this one had one and other one was fixed in
place.. He was warned about the forces being put on that one tab. It failed..
He had at least a 10G load when the plane pitched up from the loss of the trim
tab and he went "nighty night" and probably never woke up.

Here's the "theory" of the crash from experienced racers.

In 1989 this type of thing happened to another pilot but he lived to tell the
story. When flying a P-51 at 450+mph you need to have full nose down trim to
keep the plane level. The elevator trim tab broke off and the aircraft
immediately went in to a 10G climb, confirmed by the G-meter.
The pilot came to, from the sudden blackout and realized he had slipped
through the shoulder harness and was looking at the floor of the airplane.
He was able to reach the throttle and pull it back to slow down and was able
to recover and land.

Photo one is the airplane taxiing, note the pilots head in the canopy.

Fast forward to 2011

Photo two is typical oil canning as a result of the tremendous torque these
engines put out at high power.

Photo three is a photo of GG upside down with a missing elevator trim tab.
Note all you see is the back of the pilots head indicating he is being forced
down in the cockpit.

Photo four is a view of the left side nose down with the tail wheel extended
and no view of the pilot. The tail wheel is held up by hydraulics only with no
mechanical up lock, thus indicating a high G-force causing it to extend.

Photos five and six are from the left side prior to impact, note no view of
the pilot and the tail wheel extended.

Photo seven is the debris just after the crash. To the right of center above
the crowd it appears to be the wing with the leading edge down.

The people were mostly hit by chunks of concrete, asphalt and aircraft debris.
They were also hurt by the trampling of people getting out of the way.














Offline B4Buster

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2011, 08:41:46 PM »
A friend of my boss was sitting in that crowd of people in the circled section. He's extremely lucky to be alive.

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Offline VAMPIRE 2?

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2011, 09:11:01 PM »
agreed.
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Offline Seanaldinho

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2011, 10:14:29 PM »
Does your friend happen to work for the NTSB? :lol He should.

Very nice in-depth report :cheers:

Offline icepac

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2011, 12:42:03 AM »
Most of the injuries were from the spalling of the aphalt but the people who actually got hit by parts of the plane fared much worse.

A friend of my dad's got the back of his legs six inches above the knee pretty badly "rocksalted" while his girlfriend had hit the deck like a ninja the second she saw the plane heading back down and only got a single pebble to a shoulder that was high enough to be in the relatively focused path of the spalled asphalt.

The oil canning is pretty common and many of the planes show it on top of the wings even at 3.5g loading.

http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/showthread.php?t=9271

Offline cpxxx

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2011, 05:50:15 AM »
Certainly makes sense. Initially I thought it landed in part of the crowd. The pilot never knew a thing about it clearly. The real miracle is that it didn't explode on impact. The casualties would have been so much higher if that happened.

Offline allaire

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2011, 07:00:44 AM »
Not exploding on impact is not really a miracle.  The planes are loaded with the minimum of fuel needed for the race so they don't explode if they crash.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2011, 09:52:59 AM »
Not exploding on impact is not really a miracle.  The planes are loaded with the minimum of fuel needed for the race so they don't explode if they crash.

That only makes sense if the plane impacted with zero fuel and we know that was not the case.
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Offline Tigger29

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2011, 10:21:36 AM »
I would imagine these planes would be equipped with fuel cells like race cars are?  Those are designed specifically to reduce the chance of an explosion.  I just can't imagine this much work and money put into a race plane and not take that sort of thing under consideration.  Whatever was installed to prevent explosion it looks like it worked!

Offline flight17

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2011, 10:23:10 AM »
Not exploding on impact is not really a miracle.  The planes are loaded with the minimum of fuel needed for the race so they don't explode if they crash.
Minimum fuel is also a bad thing because of the increase of fuel vapores in the fuel tanks. However i dont know know the fuel systems of these racing planes, so that might not be a factor. I would assume they are using bladders, but i dont know. 

The reason it didnt explode was the high seed (500+ MPH) and shallow (compared to the initial dive) impact angle. The wreckage was too far down field before a spark could even get to the fuel it ignite what little bit there was.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 10:24:58 AM by flight17 »
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2011, 10:56:15 AM »
Minimum fuel is also a bad thing because of the increase of fuel vapores in the fuel tanks. However i dont know know the fuel systems of these racing planes, so that might not be a factor. I would assume they are using bladders, but i dont know. 

The reason it didnt explode was the high seed (500+ MPH) and shallow (compared to the initial dive) impact angle. The wreckage was too far down field before a spark could even get to the fuel it ignite what little bit there was.

Shallow impact angle?


Offline xNOVAx

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2011, 11:07:13 AM »
The plane was also carrying a large amount of water for the boil off cooling system. (probably close to equal to the amount of fuel on board, but I'm not 100% sure of the quantities) I've been wondering if that had any part in the plane not exploding.


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Offline flight17

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2011, 05:47:42 PM »
Shallow impact angle?

(Image removed from quote.)

maybe you should learn to read again.

I clearly said "compared to the initial dive".  That right there is probably 60-70 degrees and it was still pulling up when it impacted and from some of the pics, it had been nearly straight down. Just look at the 4th pic nypsy posted. Now granted, there is no objects that we can truely tell what the angle was from that pic, but i HIGHLY doubt the photographer would have edited it so that the picture was showing it nearly vertical if it wasnt really.

 it was still shallow enough that it didnt go straight into the ground but instead impacted and the debris went downfield.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2011, 05:51:36 PM »
Not exploding on impact is not really a miracle.  The planes are loaded with the minimum of fuel needed for the race so they don't explode if they crash.

It's purely a weight issue and competitive edge factor, the racers don't really mind if the pancake is cooked or raw at their funeral.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: Galloping Ghost crash
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2011, 05:59:58 PM »
I would imagine these planes would be equipped with fuel cells like race cars are?  Those are designed specifically to reduce the chance of an explosion.  I just can't imagine this much work and money put into a race plane and not take that sort of thing under consideration.  Whatever was installed to prevent explosion it looks like it worked!

Again, they're racers preparing to race, not preparing to crash.  It's a sure bet the fuel cells were modified, but likely not for safety (although they still had to comply to the basic safety regs) but for racing - IE: made signifigantly smaller (no larger than needed for a typical race) and of newer/lighter/composite materials.  My guess would be luck and the fact he was carrying as little fuel as he possibley could as the main factors for the lack of a fire... still, I am also curious what the tanks were made out of and where (and how big) they were located on that modified aircraft.
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