Should A20 loose it's F3 mode

[kvuo75]

no F3 on ANYTHING including 4 engine bombers. 

[Ruah]

I do agree though that there should be as many players allowed to join a plan as there are gunner positions. . .

but I also stick to my origional statement that F3 itself is off.

[Nathan60]

just more whinning from people to want the game the way they want it.it is easy enough to kill an a20 like the il2....f3 was taken away from the il2 and now is hardly used because you cant see a damn thing in it.f3 was its only defense against fighters that dive past 10-15 other fighters just to go for an easy kill.do that to the a20 and it will be the same uselessness  as the il2 now.if thats the case then all bombers should have the f3  taken away.

So the gamey  aspect for the Il2 was taken away and  it is  now only used as intended?

[matt]

bombers should have f3 just an opion ie lanc,17,24s ,29,26

[Tilt]

One potential solution to the F3 debate might be to change the view system in planes with crews to allow a directional view to come from the position with the best view in that direction. For example, if you're flying a B-17 and want to look back, moving your hat to the rear view gives you the view from the rear gunner's seat. Down would be from the ball turret, etc etc. This eliminates the gamey aspects of F3 mode, limits views to what could be seen from any particular plane (no straight down from a 110), and still allows the pilot of a plane with a crew some (not all) of the advantages of having a crew observing from different positions.

The balance that has to be maintained is the SA advantage that a crew provides. In the bigger bombers like the 17, the crew provided almost instantaneous SA all around the bomber. Even F3 mode cannot match that. In a 2 person craft like the Bf 110 or Il-2, the rear gunner provides additional SA not available to a single seat plane, but less than F3 offers in game.

I think even this small additional requirement turns what should be an advantage (extra eyes reporting) into a disadvantage (having to change positons and being limited in how you can maneuver while away from the pilot's seat).

Regards,

Hammer

This.................. plus a game architecture that full realises the difference between level bombing and low level attack bombing

[Yeager]

what makes the A20 so resistant compared to other twin engined planes?

Left side armor is way too thick 

[icepac]

F3 for any position except the pilot is fine.

[PFactorDave]

Take away the ability to shoot while in F3 mode.  That's the only change I think needs to be made.  It still allows the extra Situational Awareness that additional crew members would grant, but takes away the arcadey element of shooting while outside of the plane.

[wil3ur]

How about you get in a A20 and learn to fly it... then quit complaining.  I've been utilizing the plane more and more after getting molewhacked by Cobia in MW.  Rather than complaining that the plane does things it shouldn't, or is unfair and the only possible way was by them using F3 mode which also makes the a great pilot...?

Seriously...  I got angered by K4's seeming to have unlimited E in the vert... so I learned to fly one and replicate it, and see what and when someone is working me.  I was beside myself that an A6M could possibly do some of the things I thought I saw it do... but it turns out, I was being an idiot, and I learned a new manuver while I was checking it out.

Earlier this week, I killed a P51 and a Spixteen in an A20.  I wasn't hoping to dogfight, but they engaged me, and both died screaming flaming deaths because they were idiots, not because of F3 mode.  You should record your fights versus the A20 and figure out what YOU are doing wrong to end up dead...  

don't blame F3 mode, the best it can do is ruin a gun angle on a poorly staged attack, it doesn't make someone a better pilot, and it definately doesn't make their guns shoot at different angles, or add jets or anything.  Quit crying and start flying.

[pervert]

I would like the game to black out the screen of the player in the bomber when I am around 1k away and enable autopilot so he flys nice and straight for me!!!! 

[Widewing]

I was talking about this very thing the other day.

I think a good solution would be so that F3 is only available in a non-pilot position. This is what F3 represents, while the pilot is driving, the crew does the "looking."

Or more simply, disable F3 in pilot position.

Probably even suggested before and maybe answered, but I'm too lazy to use search atm.  

A less complex solution is to simply disable the nose guns when in F3....

And for the record, in an A-20G, I shoot as well or better using F3 and can maintain a tracking solution for a deflection shot on aircraft that would otherwise be too far beneath the nose to see from the cockpit. You should only be able to shoot or bomb while in the cockpit. Same argument gos for other bombers with bombsights. Only be able to drop when on the bombsight...

[Delirium]

You should only be able to shoot or bomb while in the cockpit. Same argument gos for other bombers with bombsights. Only be able to drop when on the bombsight...

+1

That would stop a lot of the whines, Widewing. What would they complain about then? 

[grizz441]

I stopped reading at Loose.

[The Fugitive]

I stopped reading at Loose.

You should get over this phobia of yours

[danny37]

So the gamey  aspect for the Il2 was taken away and  it is  now only used as intended?

its no more gameyer than being able to up a formation of bombers....is that realistic?
no its not...but the only chance a bomber has is to have a formation right?
same as il2 and a20...only chance they have in this game is by having the extra SA ability of the f3 mode.
now that f3 was taken away from the il2s...the are hardly used...it will be the same with the a20.
thats the point im making as well as they should disable formations for bombers.
if you want a formation then you should have to have others up a bomber and fly in formation with you,everyone whinning realistic...well thats realistic.