Do - 335

[Butcher]

It seems the war dept disagrees with you ... The field testing program vitally influenced the development and deployment of the P-47N ... and resulted in the cancellation of the contract for the M. Only 130 of them were built and they spent most of their WWII service grounded with engine problems.

I have not compared the P-47 to the Do 335, only offered it as a precedent for considering the 335 for AH. They have few similarities, the P-47M WAS fast, it was HOPED it would be a worthy opponent for the 262 ... But it's design was dated while the 335 incorporated NEW CONCEPTS and Mfg Techniques.

You do realize every aircraft suffers engine maintenance? engine problems? the more advance the engine the longer the downfall a particular aircraft has.
Corsair.....47...... had acceptable ratios of aircraft in repair vs a 38 which was far worse...sometimes it took 5-7 days to get a single plane airworthy.
Thus is a reason for the Heinkel He 162 vs a Me-262 - single engine that you can throw away vs a 262 which had literally 20 or so hours on the engine before they were scrapped.

The M was built as a speedy little fighter to Catch V-1s and Me-262s the reason it was canceled, is the war was pretty much over.
It had no use in the Pacific where the N and P-51 were the only capable fighters at the time (given the range which was a huge factor).

[Karnak]

The P-47M was in squadron service.  I've even personally met a pilot who flew it in combat and survived crash landing one behind German lines.

The Do335 was not in squadron service and was not flown in combat.

There is no precedence despite your attempt to make one.

[mthrockmor]

I get the rule about any potential bird having flown combat but could we deviate from it? We pay $15/mo to pretend we owned the skies of circa 1940, could we not simply vote to add it? If enough say yes it would obviously be perked well above the 262, maybe three or four times as many perks but would this not be a natural stepping stone to a Korean War arena? We want realism yet every second we see a P-51D kill a Spit we're watching reality hit the fan. Over time let the Dornier 335 mess it up with F7Fs, F8Fs, P-51Hs, Mig-15s and F-86s in a new arena. This is natural growth for this product.

Just say'n...

Boo

[Debrody]

another EVZ shine thread
i say NO to the Do-335 even tho im a luftwannabe. It has no place in this game.

[Karnak]

I get the rule about any potential bird having flown combat but could we deviate from it? We pay $15/mo to pretend we owned the skies of circa 1940, could we not simply vote to add it? If enough say yes it would obviously be perked well above the 262, maybe three or four times as many perks but would this not be a natural stepping stone to a Korean War arena? We want realism yet every second we see a P-51D kill a Spit we're watching reality hit the fan. Over time let the Dornier 335 mess it up with F7Fs, F8Fs, P-51Hs, Mig-15s and F-86s in a new arena. This is natural growth for this product.

Just say'n...

Boo

No.  I don't want to see any Do335, F7F, F8F, P-51H, MiG-15, F-86, F-4, MiG-21, F-14, F-15, F-16, MiG-29, Su-27, Su-37, F-22 or F-35.  I do not want to see the constant push of "Whatever HTC adds needs to make a big impact and be widely used." validated.

[EVZ]

I get the rule about any potential bird having flown combat but could we deviate from it? We pay $15/mo to pretend we owned the skies of circa 1940, could we not simply vote to add it? - This is natural growth for this product.

Good Points ... The 335 WAS encountered in combat situations ... Not frequently, Not in great numbers, Not as a significant factor ... BUT COMBAT is COMBAT isn't it? There does seem to be interest in the plane, desire to fly it, and it would obviously provide a suitable opponent for the P-51s and possibly add some balance to use of the 51D. In order to do THAT I would prefer to see it unperked or offered at a very low perk cost, like the T-34/85.

[Karnak]

Good Points ... The 335 WAS encountered in combat situations ... Not frequently, Not in great numbers, Not as a significant factor ... BUT COMBAT is COMBAT isn't it? There does seem to be interest in the plane, desire to fly it, and it would obviously provide a suitable opponent for the P-51s and possibly add some balance to use of the 51D. In order to do THAT I would prefer to see it unperked or offered at a very low perk cost, like the T-34/85.

Being seen at range and flying away is not combat.

[EVZ]

the more advance the engine the longer the downfall a particular aircraft has. - The M was built as a speedy little fighter to Catch V-1s and Me-262s the reason it was canceled, is the war was pretty much over. It had no use in the Pacific where the N and P-51 were the only capable fighters at the time (given the range which was a huge factor).

I'd agree with most of that ... Not sure about calling a 47 "little". The M's Engine Problems were a large part of the reason for the FIELD TESTING program as that was the ONLY way to REALLY detect them ... Many of the FIXS were applied to the 47N ... Continuing production of the M would have required retooling and down time at the factorys which was better spent converting them for production of the N. In reality the M was basically a TEST aircraft, which -I think- is a precedent for considering the Do 335 as a valid candidate.

It -IS- interesting to note that the 47N production WAS continued without pause until well after the war ended. The RUSSIANS had LONG RANGE bombers under development as well as their own atomics program and the 47Ns capabilities as a B29 escort also made it an ideal interceptor AND a functional deterant.

[EVZ]

Being seen at range and flying away is not combat.

Again the war dept disagrees with you ... ALL flights in a designated combat zone (including tests and transport) ARE combat and (most importantly) qualify the pilot for a higher pay grade.

[Karnak]

Again the war dept disagrees with you ... ALL flights in a designated combat zone (including tests and transport) ARE combat and (most importantly) qualify the pilot for a higher pay grade.

The War Dept. doesn't necessarily get to define what combat is.  I am on pretty solid ground in saying that a prototype aircraft not in squadron service that flees from a fighter is not really what HTC means by "combat".

[EagleDNY]

Even the Do-335A0 tested by the US after the war (pre-production, and arguably one of the 'fighter-bomber' variants) was capable of 475 Mph and had a ceiling of 37K, along with an initial climb rate of 1400m/min (4,200ft/min) - there are a lot worse things you could take up for bomber interception.  The problem we have in getting something like this is that you have a few production models (the A1s) and a whole lot of 'planned' production models (like the A9 which was to have longer wings and DB603L engines along with a pressurized cockpit for high alt work). 

[EVZ]

The War Dept. doesn't necessarily get to define what combat is.  I am on pretty solid ground in saying that a prototype aircraft not in squadron service that flees from a fighter is not really what HTC means by "combat".

Ok ... whatever your crystal ball tells you ... I suspect HT consider all the angles and has a relatively open mind ... I havn't heard him say NO yet? I suspect the german 335 pilot on record as RUNNING LIKE A BUNNY with a flight of Tempests on his tail considered it combat. I'd even bet the Tempest pilots hoping to catch and kill him thought it was COMBAT ...

[Tank-Ace]

EVZ, you're not gonna win this argument.


If you suddenly stumble into the crossfire of a gang shootout, are YOU in combat? No, you're just in a combat ZONE. You yourself aren't actually in combat.

[Butcher]

Ok ... whatever your crystal ball tells you ... I suspect HT consider all the angles and has a relatively open mind ... I havn't heard him say NO yet? I suspect the german 335 pilot on record as RUNNING LIKE A BUNNY with a flight of Tempests on his tail considered it combat. I'd even bet the Tempest pilots hoping to catch and kill him thought it was COMBAT ...

he never gave a criteria, but this has been the general lines for adding planes to the game - Squadron strength that has seen combat.

The Do-335 you are referring to as I recall was unarmed, one flight doesn't account for the missing squad strength. And a handful of prototypes won't change HTC's mind.

[Rino]

    I had always thought the 56th FG was an operational unit myself.