A tale of two spins

[Traveler]

A tale of two spins:

Aircraft P38L,
Load out  75% fuel, 2 1000lb bombs, 10 rockets

Altitude: 5000,
Conditions: Power off, wings level at stall full left rudder applied,

Recovery : Full Right ruder applied to stop spin, back pressure released.

Aircraft recovery is normal.

http://www.mediafire.com/?rgk8lcdaxajc5uc   spin left

Altitude: 5000,
Conditions: Power off, wings level at stall full right rudder applied,

Recovery : Full left ruder applied , back pressure released.

Aircraft failed to recovery.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ziepw2sw4cmnvp7

I performed this test 10 times.  Different load out, flap settings, Gear up or down,  I was unable to get the aircraft to recovery from a spin to the right in all tests.

Something not right about this.  Comments, observations. Anyone.?

[TequilaChaser]

I have not watched the films

but you mention nothing about pushing forward on stick  to get nose down below horizon

you mention throttle off  = correct,
you do not mention push stick forward/get nose pointed below horizon = missing from spin recovery routine,
you mention no back pressure??? <--- do not understand ( except you do not want aileron input except to help get nose pointed down ), 
you mention Rudder use opposite of spin direction = correct ( just until spin stops )

back pressure to me implies that you are not pulling on the stick ( ie .. bring nose up  ) ........ not sure if I am following your list of movements  / routine for spin recovery, correctly by the way it is typed above, but it seems wrong to me

used to be an abbreviation for spin recovery   .... but after all what I dranked last night I am drawing a blank right now, ROFL....... think it might have been  STOP   ( something like: S = stick forward   T = throttle off , O = ??? mind draws blank ,  P = pull out )  <--- or something along them lines.........


TC  ( I'll try and download the films in a lil bit....  is time to eat )

Happy New Year!

[PFactorDave]

O = opposite rudder

[TequilaChaser]

O = opposite rudder

yep... I just had it pop in my head...... thanks PFDave      I even mentioned it in my post above, but couldn't connect it to STOP   lol

ok back to the supper table

TC

[Traveler]

I'm a professional flight instructor that has many years of experience.  I've taught spin recovery in real life in both military  and civilian flight instruction.  Powered and glider.  Unlike the FAA, I’m a strong believer that all primary students should learn spin recovery and be able to demonstrate it.  I’ have taught it for the last 30  years as part of the student pilot curriculum . 

Student glider pilots according to the FAA curriculum for a glider rating  must demonstrate spins and spin recovery , however, student pilots for powered aircraft must only demonstrate knowledge of spin recovery.

Perhaps that explains why far more powered students die in stall spin accidents then glider students.

Something else that you can also do in AH is to stall the aircraft press left ruder and the aircraft spins to the left, while keeping the stick fully back (stalled) stop the spin to the left by holding right ruder, and continue to hold right ruder so the spin starts to the right, at this point now apply left ruder and attempt to stop the spin to the right.   It can’t be done.  At least it can’t be done in the P38.

[Seanaldinho]

I'm a professional flight instructor that has many years of experience.  I've taught spin recovery in real life in both military  and civilian flight instruction.  Powered and glider.  Unlike the FAA, I’m a strong believer that all primary students should learn spin recovery and be able to demonstrate it.  I’ have taught it for the last 30  years as part of the student pilot curriculum .  

Student glider pilots according to the FAA curriculum for a glider rating  must demonstrate spins and spin recovery , however, student pilots for powered aircraft must only demonstrate knowledge of spin recovery.

Perhaps that explains why far more powered students die in stall spin accidents then glider students.

Something else that you can also do in AH is to stall the aircraft press left ruder and the aircraft spins to the left, while keeping the stick fully back (stalled) stop the spin to the left by holding right ruder, and continue to hold right ruder so the spin starts to the right, at this point now apply left ruder and attempt to stop the spin to the right.   It can’t be done.  At least it can’t be done in the P38.

I found when I did spins in gliders it was fairly easy as long as I kept my calm and went through the steps.

Basically nose down, rudder it out, level the wings, pull out.

[Soulyss]

You can stop a spin to the right in the P-38L under the conditions you describe by bringing up a little power on the right engine while leaving the left throttle all the way back and using left rudder.

The stall to the right does seem to behave differently than the stall to the left, why I couldn't say but you can recover from it.

[wil3ur]

Only plane I've had to cut the engine completely in to regain from a spin is the 110, for some reason the nose won't drop with the throttle back, but it falls like a stone when the engine is cut completely.

[Traveler]

You can stop a spin to the right in the P-38L under the conditions you describe by bringing up a little power on the right engine while leaving the left throttle all the way back and using left rudder.

The stall to the right does seem to behave differently than the stall to the left, why I couldn't say but you can recover from it.

What you are describing is not a correct model.  Remember the P38 has counter rotating engines.  It should not be necessary to bring up power on one engine, suppose the engine is out?  Besides I can’t find any historical data that supports your assertion that asymmetrical power must be applied in the stalled Spin to the right .

[VIPER]

See Rule #4

[Traveler]

See Rule #4

Looking for input from other players with respect to their experience with P38’s spinning in to the right.    If you have nothing to offer in that regard, what’s your point?  My experience is what it is, nothing more.  I’m just trying to gain informational insight.  Do you have anything to offer?

[ScottyK]

See Rule #4

[VIPER]

Looking for input from other players with respect to their experience with P38’s spinning in to the right.    If you have nothing to offer in that regard, what’s your point?  My experience is what it is, nothing more.  I’m just trying to gain informational insight.  Do you have anything to offer?

yes I do.  The P38 is fine!  the only thing I do not like about it or the way it flys is those darn auto-retracting flaps
I would think, someone with 30 yrs of instructing others how to fly or recover spins, that they would be able to recover from a spin in a flight sim

Soulyss seems to be able to, and you are so much more the man according to your resume you posted about your experience

did I offer you enough?

Viper

[Traveler]

yes I do.  The P38 is fine!  the only thing I do not like about it or the way it flys is those darn auto-retracting flaps
I would think, someone with 30 yrs of instructing others how to fly or recover spins, that they would be able to recover from a spin in a flight sim

Soulyss seems to be able to, and you are so much more the man according to your resume you posted about your experience

did I offer you enough?

Viper

Why the personal attack, I'm just looking for information.  I don't know of anyone in the game recovering from a spin to the right in a P38.  Would love to see the film.
What's your problem?

[VIPER]

See Rule #4