Honour and the year 2012

[Lusche]

Try "sportsmanship" then.

- oldman

Don't tell that me, tell that him.

[pervert]

In my experience honor and sportsmanship are reserved for the times when we lose like a comfort blanket for failure. The problem is there always has to be a loser for there to be a winner 

[Lusche]

I'm a fan of Arnold Palmer and his school of thought on games:

"Bad golfer, bad person" meaning, you can learn a lot about a person by the way he plays his game of golf or any other game really.  Cheater in golf, cheater in life...etc etc.  I believe we are being asked to have character. 

Character... yes. But all these things only get so far. In the end, I will be accused again of having no real life morals at all, that I would betray my RL country in a war ... just because I "betrayed" my AH chesspiece by switching sides.

Again: I will relentlessly mock everyone who arbitrarily defines the high value term of honor by the number of planes diving on a con.

[Changeup]

In my experience honor and sportsmanship are reserved for the times when we lose like a comfort blanket for failure. The problem is there always has to be a loser for there to be a winner 

He is speaking about HOW you win or HOW you lose...admittedly, the MA is not a place to look for equal footing in a fight and, in fact, it almost never happens.  That is what the DA is for although that seems to be fading into obscurity.  Winning and losing in the MA is function of a lot of things, most of which no pilot can control...now, the few things that you can control will keep you alive a lot longer but for the most part you aint gettin home every time.

[Chemdawg]

I dont think you can derive a persons character by one event, maybe if it is a habit....


It makes sense tactically to remain with advantage as well, if ten green dots went down to chase one red, who's got top cover? I'm sure another red will be around soon enough so stay high and engage them.

[Changeup]

Character... yes.

Again: I will relentlessly mock everyone who arbitrarily defines the high value term of honor by the number of planes diving on a con.

I don't think relentless mocking will change anyone or anyone's viewpoint.  I have seen you fly and I don't believe he's talking about a pilot like you...so your actions are already speaking for your character and that is what he's asking.  JUGgler talks about the same thing and I will too, on occasion.  If you're in a 1 v 1 in the MA and your opponent has 4 buddies lurking, why not finish the fight?  If you beat your opponent, you aint gettin home...of course, everyone defines character differently.

[Lusche]

I don't think relentless mocking will change anyone or anyone's viewpoint. 

I don't expect that

[Changeup]

I dont think you can derive a persons character by one event, maybe if it is a habit....


It makes sense tactically to remain with advantage as well, if ten green dots went down to chase one red, who's got top cover? I'm sure another red will be around soon enough so stay high and engage them.

I'm fairly certain he's not talking about 1 event and there's another old saying..."A person is only as good as they are in their worst moment"...You gang?  You're a ganger...we've all done it...we'll all do it again, and again and again.  We are being asked to try harder.

[68ZooM]

Honor and sportsmanship lies within each player, how they use it is up to them, Dan i would have to say has honor and sportsmanship to the highest degree as well as many others, several squads hold onto this also you just have to find them  

[Changeup]

I don't expect that

Understood.   

The only thing I would like to ask everyone to do is treat the new people with a bit more respect.  There is too much to learn in this game to take any of it for granted...most people find their way to the MA thinking it will be a game...they are completely unprepared to BECOME the game.  Then, we run them off with sarcasm and by making fun of them not knowing jack...not everyone...but alot of folks.  Yes, I've done it too...but not in a long, long time and it won't ever happen again.

[The Fugitive]

How about "class". or is that too much a reach for you guys?

[Changeup]

How about "class". or is that too much a reach for you guys?

Im not sure that having class and having character are too different...in fact, I know they aren't.

[EskimoJoe]

Morals...

...

 

[Daubie]

I would like to see squads with integrity to start showing integrity.
We all have moments in AH were we feel like things are unfair. We all have moments when we felt like the fight would have been differant if there was just one less con on your 6.
Look at al the post in here about collisions and hordes. All of those are a product of you the squads leading us down the path of indifference
I would ask this of all AH top squads.
Institute a honour policy among your squaddies. If there are more than 3 of you, or any other friendly, on 1 con then break off. Fly with honour and make the AH community proud to be one of your squad members not because it took 5 of you to shot one con down but rather it only took one.

I have flown against all of you guys and know the skill level in here is incredible. Now show your true potential and change the game through your own squads. We should not go quietly into the night. We should fight for what we believe in.

The pilots, both sides, during WWI had much the same attitude you suggest and the 12th century knights chivalry code of conduct when they started out in air combat.  That noble attitude quickly changed as fellow friends and pilots got shot down from the enemy's deceitful practices, whichever side started it, and that was that.

War is, well you know how it goes.

Go read the book titled, "With The Old Breed" by E.B. Sledge, published in 2010 by Presido Press as to what war is really like, concerning the WWII, Pacific, Marine infantryman.

This game is not real war, but the psychology of the guys playing it, mirrors it.

I have been "killed" in this game every way imaginable as to non-noble action.  What comes around goes around.  

I often find one on one opportunity to fight.  The acronym SA applies before ever entering the fight.  If I see one guy, I am good to go.  If I see more than one, I avoid it.  Finding one on one opportunity happens at 20K or so, not flying low and not flying the predictable path to a furball.

[Bruv119]

Whilst surfinn's request seems a little unrealistic he does have a point.  

A few weeks back he was in a pesky I16 and I was in my spit8.   He could have dove down and picked me on three different occasions but chose to watch my first fight with tallboy's KI.    It was about a minute long and he engaged when it was clear to do so.   Then one after another his countrymen kept trying to jump into our fight with their lame bnz attacks, so he backed off and let me kill them one by one and then dropped in again.

I get that it is unheard of and extremely impractical but for that sortie where I would have died very quickly, his actions prolonged my enjoyment.  The underlying problem is that people do not respect the enemy pilot it is just a natural human trait of self greed.  The saddest part is the hypocrisy of some people who just can't accept stuff when it happens to them yet are the worst for it.  After playing for 10+ years it is the people like surfinn that I will remember and return his honour in kind.