Somewhat dissapointed

[cohofly]

Im somewhat dissapointed with how things went in Frame 3 FSO. I am only speaking from my point of view here, and only representing myself and not the 325th for whom I fly. We were given the task  of defending A73. Given the right numbers this should have been an attainable situation. Unfortunately we didnt have the right numbers. The 325th had ten in uniform, the 801st had 7 in uniform. Now we werent flying as a force of 17, we were fighting in small 3-4 ship wings that were spread quite thin over a large alt. difference. A73 was a known target, and was hit by at lest 50+ 190 jabos and 109 escorts flying in large groups of perhaps 20 ships. This isnt the first time that the Axis leaders have used this tactic, and guess what it works............ So my question is how are we supposed to defend a known target that is going to get hit by either Jabos or Bombers with escorts? This seems like losing battle to me. It seems we were only given a very small chance at succcesfully completing our task, let alone surviving. It would seem to me that we know what is going to happen but for whatever reason for several frames the "right "decisions" werent made. C'mon guys we know where they are going to hit, please give us tools to allow us to accompolish the task.

Frustratedly yours
Carver

[surfinn]

Ya i guess what he means is its dam stupid to attack 20 190s with 1 to 4 ac when it should be in mass and whoever the allied general is he should have his buthole kicked for sending us in that way time and time again.

[branch37]

Have either of you ever been a CiC?

[Devil 505]

Are you really suggesting that the axis CIC used over 100 planes to hit A73?   

The actual numbers were much lower that your estimates. You would know this if you checked your film or the logs.

Did the other defenders of 73 feel just as overwelmed in the battle as you did. It warms my heart just knowing that even with the alt advantage in your Jugs, Ponies, and Spit8s that you crapped your pants  over a few 109 As. 

There is no need to blame the side CICs or the CMs that run FSO when you wasted every advantage and got spanked by the best in the Luftwaffe. 

PS send my regards to family of Rayace1. 

[cohofly]

Where in my original post does it say that I suggested that the Axis CIC used over 100 planes to attack A73???? Cmon Devil read it again. back at you. And from your Screenie it appears that was a 190 shooting down Rayace. So a few 109's no not crapping pants. 2 waves of 20 190's plus 109 against 4 P-47's 6 Pony B's and 8Spit 8's, yah I  knew we were gonna take a whoooping.
Branch, No I have never been a CiC and I am certain that Surffin hasnt either, but I know when Im going to get my buttttt kicked.

[M0nkey_Man]

Where in my original post does it say that I suggested that the Axis CIC used over 100 planes to attack A73???? Cmon Devil read it again. back at you. And from your Screenie it appears that was a 190 shooting down Rayace. So a few 109's no not crapping pants. 2 waves of 20 190's plus 109 against 4 P-47's 6 Pony B's and 8Spit 8's, yah I  knew we were gonna take a whoooping.
Branch, No I have never been a CiC and I am certain that Surffin hasnt either, but I know when Im going to get my buttttt kicked.

2 waves of 20? the most we had over the target at one time was like 20 fighters. Much less 40. A Squad of around 8 planes took out A73's entire high cap.

[Spikes]

Where in my original post does it say that I suggested that the Axis CIC used over 100 planes to attack A73????

hit by at lest 50+ 190 jabos and 109 escorts flying in large groups of perhaps 20 ships

[Bannor]

I was CiC Axis for frame 2 and I see where some of your frustration comes from. It was a lot easier to plan the offense due to the fact that we were not using any bombers, just jabos. I never really assigned escorts as each plane was capable of getting into targets on their own. The defending planes were the ones that carried no ord, save for 1 squad that was capable but prob didnt load them. They were a small squad of about 4. I tried to balance out each objective with the same amount of planes and projected (on frame 1 #'s) 10 more on the offensive than on defense, which was a bit over 2 per objective, and an avg. of 22 planes per objective.

On a side note, frame 3 was one my personal best. FATE was tasked with defending A41 with the 334th. After the first (and only?) strike we went up to help out with A37 and on the way discovered A38 was being attacked and was undefended at that point. We made a bee line into it I'm and pretty sure we surprised the attackers when we came down on them.  We finished the night right there. I had blast! <<S>> Allies 

[perdue3]

First of all, there were 2 groups of 190s FIGHTING, 9GIAP and Kommando Nowotny. We were made up of 17 planes. JG 11 in 190A-8s did not show up until EVERY allied plane in area was dead. And yes, in the beginning the Spits, Jugs, and 51s were above us. Nothing slick was done here except pure carnage.

[Stampf]

but I know when Im going to get my buttttt kicked

You faced Kommando Nowotny (11 - 190A-5's), 9Giap (6 - 190A-5's), and III/JG11 (12 Heavy 190A-8's).  And they had a simple plan that they stuck to.

You did fine.

EDIT: as my esteemed colleague posted as I was as well...Doo is correct.  III/JG11 never fired a shot at enemy aircraft.  The field was 100% intact when we arrived.  We left it...somewhat altered.

[fudgums]

 

[Devil 505]

Where in my original post does it say that I suggested that the Axis CIC used over 100 planes to attack A73???? Cmon Devil read it again. back at you. And from your Screenie it appears that was a 190 shooting down Rayace. So a few 109's no not crapping pants. 2 waves of 20 190's plus 109 against 4 P-47's 6 Pony B's and 8Spit 8's, yah I  knew we were gonna take a whoooping.
Branch, No I have never been a CiC and I am certain that Surffin hasnt either, but I know when Im going to get my buttttt kicked.

Yep, oops on my part. I meant 190 As. There were NO 109s used in the strike of 73.
But seriously you implied that you encountered 90+ enemies when all there were was 26. At the time of initial contact our fighters met each side had exactly 17 planes. With your alt advantage and better aircraft at that alt, I would have expected more from you guys than a bunch of wrecked planes, bruised egos, and a sob story on the BBs.

Better luck in 2 weeksI guess.  

[j500ss]

I was CiC Axis for frame 2 and I see where some of your frustration comes from. It was a lot easier to plan the offense due to the fact that we were not using any bombers, just jabos. I never really assigned escorts as each plane was capable of getting into targets on their own. The defending planes were the ones that carried no ord, save for 1 squad that was capable but prob didnt load them. They were a small squad of about 4. I tried to balance out each objective with the same amount of planes and projected (on frame 1 #'s) 10 more on the offensive than on defense, which was a bit over 2 per objective, and an avg. of 22 planes per objective.

^^^^^^^^^^   See that up there!!   Like it or not, having to put pilots in a 5-6 different planes, is a H@!! of a lot easier than having to fill a list of 8-10 different planes, especially when 3 of them are defenseless low level bombers.

There were so many interesting things the allies could have done in this FSO....... But didn't.

None the less, it was fun  

JDog

[cohofly]

Hey dont get me wrong here guys. This was never intended to be a Whine thread. My hat is off to the CiC and all who planned and participated in Januarys FSO. You guys had great planning and execution. A BIG <S>.  To the attackers of A73 <S> also you came in in a concentrated force, and we were scattered with 3 here and 3 there, so on ad nauseum. My and a few of my MA squaddies involved with FSO, frustration lies with not being given the resources to adequately defend, again. Strategy plain and simple.

[cohofly]

DEVIL 505 Apperantly you have some difficulty reading. In my original post I stated 50+. I have been told and rightly so that even that number was wrong. Yes the number attacking A73 was 29. So Im having some difficulty understanding where you are getting your numbers from.
For the record in case you missed it
50 + is not over 100, that would be 100+
50 + is not 90 that would be 80+
its 50 + a few