CV Ack vs Fighters

[Wiley]

Because a bomber will take much more damage than a small fighter before it goes down, just like when it is shot by another aircraft....?

 



wrongway

However, buffs are much slower and predictable targets, therefore should be easier to hit.  Over 90% of shots that miss don't do any damage, y'know.

For gameplay purposes, I'm torn.  I'm not a huge fan of puffy knocking fighters down, but I feel buffs should fear puffy more than they do.  As it stands now, the only decent threat to a bomber at reasonable alt over a CV is manned ack.

Wiley.

[AWwrgwy]

However, buffs are much slower and predictable targets, therefore should be easier to hit.  Over 90% of shots that miss don't do any damage, y'know.

For gameplay purposes, I'm torn.  I'm not a huge fan of puffy knocking fighters down, but I feel buffs should fear puffy more than they do.  As it stands now, the only decent threat to a bomber at reasonable alt over a CV is manned ack.

Wiley.

But the issue is "ahhhh, my fighter got hit once by puffy and I died" versus "I flew my buffs through puffy and nothing happened".

Who says the buffs aren't getting hit? It just takes more hits.



wrongway

[Vasco]

Every flak burst that has enough power to rip off a fighter's wing (that's the  usual dmg encountered) must be close enough that it should tear off a buff one's too.

Shrapnel should create PW, oil/rad hits or leaking fuel tanks.

I rarely get such hits in a fighter over a CV - usually it's a direct hit and the wing is gone.
In a buff you just receive direct hits from manned 5".

[Daddkev]

  I love shooting the 5 inchers.....alot of people send me Mad PMs! Priceless

[Vasco]

I love shooting the 5 inchers.....alot of people send me Mad PMs! Priceless

Manawar is that you? 

[caldera]

I was going to post some numbers, but my stupid Chrome crashed and I lost it - however I was going to show the AAA armament for the Battle of Midway (USS Yorktown) compared to the USS Franklin in late 44, if we had a Late war compliment of AAA then you wouldn't be getting near a CV period.

The Franklin didn't fare any better than the Yorktown:




Still, there should be something done about auto-puffy tracking bombers better.  If you can get hit in a maneuvering fighter at 3,001 feet, you should get hammered in buffs flying straight and level right to the CV.

[Kazan_HB]

Manawar is that you? 

 

[Ack-Ack]

The Franklin didn't fare any better than the Yorktown:

(Image removed from quote.)


Still, there should be something done about auto-puffy tracking bombers better.  If you can get hit in a maneuvering fighter at 3,001 feet, you should get hammered in buffs flying straight and level right to the CV.

The crew on USS Franklin and the rest of Task Force 58 were caught with their pants around their ankles by the surprise attack of the lone Japanese bomber.  USS Franklin never fired her AA guns as she had lost the incoming Japanese bomber in the radar clutter of other USN planes of TF 58 taking off.  Franklin also had come off GQ and crews were preparing for breakfast and a burial at sea later in the morning in addition to getting planes ready to bomb a base on the Japanese home land and then later re-armed with AP bombs to take on a Japanese battleship and cruiser.  I think the other ships in TF 58 were in a similar state of readiness because hardly any, if at all, AA was fired at the attacking Japanese plane. 

Not a good example to refute Butcher's post.

ack-ack

[Butcher]

The Franklin didn't fare any better than the Yorktown:

(Image removed from quote.)


Still, there should be something done about auto-puffy tracking bombers better.  If you can get hit in a maneuvering fighter at 3,001 feet, you should get hammered in buffs flying straight and level right to the CV.

As AKAK points out, I made a poor choice pointing out both CV's for examples, however use the USS Enterprise for its AAA Armaments from 1/42 to 4/44.

[DMGOD]

Me thinks we have it easier here then they did

[Ack-Ack]

Me thinks we have it easier here then they did

A lot easier than they did.



Above is AA from both shore based AA and shipboard AA in the harbor



ack-ack

[AWwrgwy]

Every flak burst that has enough power to rip off a fighter's wing (that's the  usual dmg encountered) must be close enough that it should tear off a buff one's too.

By that logic, the same amount of damage should be needed for a single fighter to kill a P-51 as a B-17.

Shrapnel should create PW, oil/rad hits or leaking fuel tanks.

It does.

I rarely get such hits in a fighter over a CV - usually it's a direct hit and the wing is gone.
In a buff you just receive direct hits from manned 5".

So, you have been hit directly by a 5" round in a bomber and nothing happened?   




wrongway

[Vasco]

As I said, if the round is close enough to rip off the wing of a fighter due to the blast it should also inflict critical dmg to a buff.
Can't remember that puffy ack ever downed a bomber or a drone.
In a fighter I always get complete wings removed and and almost never receive light dmg (let's say due to nearby misses' shrapnels).

So, you have been hit directly by a 5" round in a bomber and nothing happened?   

I wrote I never get direct hits from puffy ack in a buff, just from manned 5" (which are usually deadly).


Cheers,
Vasco

[Vasco]

Just a comment to above's pictures:

AAA in WW2 was terribly inefficient (kills/rounds fired), they created mostly black smoke in the sky.

One can argue the proximity fuzes of 5" dual purpose on US ships weren't, but nonetheless they hadn't AEGIS back then and I'd be surprised if the AA radars (if any!) could track more than one contact's altitude, range and heading. And I suppose datalinks to 5" turrets weren't invented either.

Even if you have proxy fuses I suspect you still lead the gun (therefore you need an estimation of range, alt and heading of the target).

Does anyone have more info on this?
(Please omit info on surface radars and 14"/16" main guns)

[leitwolf]

I'll hijack ack-ack's link:



How common is this effect on bombers in AH? It never happens to buffs, even on a straight and level run towards the CV. If you do the same in a fighter, you're toast. This needs to change.