Author Topic: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!  (Read 6340 times)

Offline VonMessa

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2012, 09:35:57 AM »
Are you unclear on the concept of percentages?  It certainly seems so.

Hey, if ya can't club someone with cold, hard facts, what can you club them with?     :D
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Offline HawkerMKII

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2012, 09:57:37 AM »
Are you unclear on the concept of percentages?  It certainly seems so.

Yes i do, and the PERCENTAGE system is outdated......should be based on number of players!
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2012, 10:15:18 AM »
Yes i do, and the PERCENTAGE system is outdated......should be based on number of players!

Why?

What is it based upon, now?
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Offline Dead Man Flying

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2012, 10:34:54 AM »
Yes i do, and the PERCENTAGE system is outdated......should be based on number of players!

No, it shouldn't.  Stop whining.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2012, 10:35:52 AM »
Yes i do, and the PERCENTAGE system is outdated......should be based on number of players!

What percentage of it is out of date?
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2012, 10:41:11 AM »
What percentage of it is out of date?

Are we trying to change the percentage system to make per-cent have a different meaning than 1 out of 100?
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Offline matt

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2012, 10:41:50 AM »

Offline hotard

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2012, 10:49:42 AM »
What percentage of it is out of date?

Here is the shortcoming of a percentage based ENY:
When overall numbers are low, ENY kicks in very early because of the percentage imballance.
When there are many players in the arena ENY is under applied, again because it takes a large imballance in terms of actual number of players to trigger ENY.

Example would be with low numbers you may have a side with +10 players and and eny of 10-15.. 10 players spread over the map, or even concentrated in 2 or 3 places is virtually no advantage, hence no need for the penalty.

Contrast that when there are 4-5 hundred players on, and the worst case senerio being when only 1 of the 3 countries is at a numbers disadvantage. This ascerbates the shortcomings of the % based system, because now you have 2 countries with larger percentages, however the percent differential between the high countries and the low is diluted by the fact that 2 have high numbers..  In this situation you can have a 60+ player differential and <5 eny penalty.. 60 players is a massive advantage and nearly always leads to a roll.

In the past the ease of switching sides back and forth lead many players to country hop in search of favoriable perk ride cost and perk point accumulation, as well as the opportunity to choose a fight if it wasn't on his current country's front. The 12 hour rule effectivly ended this, which was a very useful tool in number balancing.(Not that I want putz-a-war busting missions on an hourly basis mind you)
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2012, 11:02:04 AM »
So your suggesting that when the numbers are low that everyone spreads out so the side are really more even than it looks right?

Offline SEseph

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2012, 01:53:15 PM »
Just make eny apply only to people in flight. The people sitting AFK or what not are the problems for ENY. It is their right tho to sit there, like it or not, but HTC should also take this more into consideration IMO.

-OR-

Attach a 'timer' to anyone in the tower. If they don't input some sort of command in a set amount of time, say 5 minutes, they no longer count for ENY purposes until they are active, which would immediately enter them back into the ENY equation.

If this is a repeat idea, sorry, I'm too buzzed to read the small nonsense posts and skipped to the end.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2012, 02:47:41 PM »
Just make eny apply only to people in flight. The people sitting AFK or what not are the problems for ENY. It is their right tho to sit there, like it or not, but HTC should also take this more into consideration IMO.
Problem with that is that large missions would exempt, or at least limit, the effect of ENY on them.
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Offline Baumer

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2012, 03:37:03 PM »
If you think about this logically you can see that there is an area where the current ENY/Balancing system has a potential weakness.

First, I am starting with a few logical assumptions.
1.) The current ENY/Balance system is intended to hinder the numerically superior side from just numerically overwhelming each base capture.
2.) The current ENY/Balance system applies the same percentage calculation to the player population all the time (from a minimum of 70 players to a maximum of 600 players). 
3.) With the current base capture system, the work (i.e. what you need to do in order to capture a base) is static.

Since the work required to capture a base is static, the chosen percentage calculation must work over a wide range of player population. It is my personal belief that an attacking force of more than 15 players constitutes an overwhelming force that is detrimental to game play. I'm sure this number can be argued and if there is sufficient defense then the number could even be significantly higher, but 15 vs. 3 or 4 defenders is an overwhelming attack in most cases.

If you look at the images the OP provided, you can see that with the current system as the total number of players in the arena goes up, the potential for numerically unbalanced attacks also increases. And that is a genuine weakness of the current ENY/Balance system.

There are a few different options for addressing this issue, but I want to get the core of the problem discussed first.

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Offline Babalonian

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2012, 07:36:14 PM »
Yeah have 20 more players and eny is 15....have 60 more eny ZERO!!!!! System works well.............. :x :x :x :x :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl Time for a change!

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Offline hotard

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2012, 07:40:55 PM »
So your suggesting that when the numbers are low that everyone spreads out so the side are really more even than it looks right?

I'm saying that a 60 player advantage is greater than a 10 player advantage regardless of percentages. If 40% of the surpluss decided to concentrate their force, then you are talking about 4 out of 10 players, or 24 out of 60. 4 players is nothing, 24 is a "horde" by any horde whiner definition. So imbedded in the 60 player advantage you very frequently have a overwhelming cohesive force.

I'm not arguing for a mechanism to ballance the players per side (but reverting to the 1 hour rule would be a help), just if you are going to have ENY at all make it impactful, otherwise do away with it..
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Offline chaser

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Re: ENY and side balancing outdated and a freking JOKE!
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2012, 07:41:12 PM »
I personally would rather see the whole ENY limiting system out the door. Each plane and GV should still have an ENY for perk reasons, but make it so the ENY never limits what you can up. Or let the GV's be exempt from it. Nothing more frustrating than being in a big GV battle and suddenly you can't even up an M4 because of the ENY. The ENY is something I've hated from the very beginning.