109s wep

[Debrody]

asking the developers on this one.
How is it modelled?
Been flying the g6 for a year and even tho its slow, i could never run out of wep. The g6 modelled in game doesnt have an MW50 injection system, so i guess its wep is just an "overdrive" and it can be regenerated indefiniate times as the engine cools down again.
In the other hand, in planes equipped with MW50, K4, 190F, sometimes i had the impression that my wep just dont want to regenerate after using it for a while. Guessing its because the plane consumpts all its MW50.

Am i right? Or is it completely different? Plz help me out on this one.
ty

[Spork]

I will preface this with "Not trying to be a jerk"

I was reading this other bbs about WEP and the recharge times and they pointed the poster to this article in the Wiki:

http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/WEP

It I believe explains everything there for ya except it doesn't say what type of injection that is modelled.

 
Spork

[Krusty]

WEP is a generic term in AH, meaning just that rating which was the maximum short-term power setting allowed.

On the 109G-6 this rating is allowed for 10 minutes before needing to cool down. In Aces High we do not limit additives on planes that needed them (such as MW50 or water injection) because often the supplies onboard are for more time than the planes in AH can run at full throttle. You got 30 minutes of MW50, but in AH a 109G14 or K4 running WEP only has about 20 minutes of flight time with a full tank.

So it's not worth it to limit the additives. Not to mention many planes don't need additives at all. They simply run at a higher power setting that can only be sustained for 5 minutes (it's a common time limit across many planes).

Most planes in game have 5 minutes of continuous WEP before needing to cool off. A number of German craft have 10 minutes, and I believe a couple of others (La7 I think?). One or two have shorter durations, such as Ki-84 and maybe P-47N(?).

It's all modeled off of historic limitations and cooldown times for that airframe.

[Chalenge]

Ha! Spit 1 is out of fuel before it regens. Spoken from experience.

[Ruah]

Ha! Spit 1 is out of fuel before it regens. Spoken from experience.

I think the LA7 runs out before its out too. . .you can actually just run the wep forever because you will go dry before its over - not for the 5fn as far as I know. 

Japanese planes have a different wep system then the US and Germans. . .it runs out fast, but regens fast too.

[PR3D4TOR]

It's all modeled off of historic limitations and cooldown times for that airframe.

Not quite. The Germans had several WEP settings: Combat & climb setting was limited to 30 minutes, emergency setting was limited to 10 minutes with an increased emergency setting of 3-5 minutes. MW50 equipped planes had a 10 minute increased emergency setting with a one minute cool down time between uses (usually 30 minutes total for the 109G/K). HTC abbreviates all this into 5 or 10 minute WEP times with varying cool-down times.

[Karnak]

The cooldowns seem to be arbitrary.  The Merlins in British aircraft have 5 minutes of WEP and a 15 minute cooldown to get another entire 5 minutes of WEP.  The Merlins in American aircraft have 5 minutes of WEP and a 10 minute cooldown to get another entire 5 minutes of WEP.

Keep in mind that the engine cools down steadily, so for example 3 seconds after a British fighter has WEP deactivated after 5 minutes of use they have 1 second of WEP available, after 30 seconds they have 10 seconds of WEP available and so on.

[Krusty]

Karnak: Different cooling systems at work. From memory of past discussions there has been historic documentation of cooldown times, and it has been brought up before. Can't go into specifics as it didn't interest me enough to save any of it, but I remember it happened. It's not arbitrary, from what I recall. The same type of engine in a different plane is going to have different heat dissipation due to oil coolers, liquid coolers, airflow over both, etc. Not to mention just because the engine is Merlin doesn't mean it's creating the same heat. There are different boost levels creating different heat levels in different planes. The P-51 and the Spit1, for example, are significantly different.

Predator, I don't think you have a good grasp on how HTC models it. The official max power (war emergency power) that is listed in manuals and such is used. That is the 5 minute or 10 minute rating that AH has modeled. The "30 min" setting is basically off-WEP in AH because the increased fuel burn shortens flight time to the point you never have to worry about overheating. The cooldown time was not 1 minute. It was 5 or 10 minutes (I can't recall, but think it was 5). You should check up on it if you get the chance. There were some WEP settings that were only allowed for 2-3 minutes but these seem more rare... Such as GM-1 injection or when you had a de-rated engine and it could only pull WEP for so long. Note the 109E has only 5 minutes of WEP, as does the C.202 which uses the same type of engine. That's because they weren't cleared for any longer than that.

It's all based on documented material. If you think it's wrong, provide evidence to HTC and they will take it into consideration. If it warrants it.

[Karnak]

Krusty,

There was no "cooldown time" for Allisons, Griffons or Merlins.  You were supposed to limit WEP to 5 minutes per sortie, but there was nothing stopping you from running WEP for 30 minutes other than the increased risk of engine failure due to the higher pressures and the reduced time between engine overhauls.

The different cooldowns for these engines on different aircraft are purely gameplay related.

[FLOTSOM]

it would be nice if they allowed you to toggle auto WEP control on or off.

like auto take off combat trim etc. so the novice could allow the game to switch WEP off before engine damage. but this feature could be turned off allowing the player to maximize the use of the WEP but at the risk of over use and damaging or destroying his motor due to over heat.

dont most planes already have a engine temp gauge in the cockpit? well that would be the tool of measure to use to prevent engine damage. the planes that used additives, MW50 etc, could have the boost additionally time limited do to depletion of the resource. use up the additive and the WEP runs out, (i am assuming it was stored in a small fuel cell that could be gauged), over heat the motor and lose engine actual power performance permanently and/or damage motor beyond use.

[Krusty]

Krusty,

There was no "cooldown time" for Allisons, Griffons or Merlins.  You were supposed to limit WEP to 5 minutes per sortie, but there was nothing stopping you from running WEP for 30 minutes other than the increased risk of engine failure due to the higher pressures and the reduced time between engine overhauls.

The different cooldowns for these engines on different aircraft are purely gameplay related.

I understand that select few rare examples were able to perform in emergency situations for half an hour, and showed no signs of problems. That's the same for MANY different types of engines in WW2. Those are the exceptions. The problem is you don't hear the stories of the ones that FAILED because they didn't make it back. Like B-17s that sustained massive damage to make it back alive... The exceptions to the rule (you don't see all the others that were shot down with even less damage... because there's nothing left to see!).

The 5 minutes is a regulation time limit. The cooldown time we have in this game is based on the heat generated and there is some logic behind it. It's not random like you suggest.


EDIT: Technically speaking you could run your engine so high you would utterly trash it, but it would get you home in 1 piece. Realistically speaking you were trained and told NOT to do so. The plane you were in and the engine you were behind had to last for the duration of the war. The regulations were in place for a reason. It's kind of like taking off with a man clinging to each wing. You COULD do it. Nothing stopped you... Except common sense and the rules/regulations that said NOT to.

[Wmaker]

Krusty,

There was no "cooldown time" for Allisons, Griffons or Merlins.  You were supposed to limit WEP to 5 minutes per sortie, but there was nothing stopping you from running WEP for 30 minutes other than the increased risk of engine failure due to the higher pressures and the reduced time between engine overhauls.

Depending on the situation and several factors, there's certainly change of boiling the coolant. Like on most things powered by liquid cooled engines, they didn't have an endless reservoir of coolant.

[Karnak]

I understand that select few rare examples were able to perform in emergency situations for half an hour, and showed no signs of problems. That's the same for MANY different types of engines in WW2. Those are the exceptions. The problem is you don't hear the stories of the ones that FAILED because they didn't make it back. Like B-17s that sustained massive damage to make it back alive... The exceptions to the rule (you don't see all the others that were shot down with even less damage... because there's nothing left to see!).

I disagree.  I think the sample size of engines run on WEP for an extended time in the air is too small to make any determination.  Engines tested on the ground by running WEP for extended periods of time did not fail at a vastly higher rate than engines run at their continuous power setting for an extended period of time.  Many R-2800s were run at WEP for 24 hours in tests.

The 5 minutes is a regulation time limit. The cooldown time we have in this game is based on the heat generated and there is some logic behind it. It's not random like you suggest.

And all American radiators are magically more effective than all British radiators by the same exact margin?  Sorry, I don't buy it.  I don't think that data even exists.

EDIT: Technically speaking you could run your engine so high you would utterly trash it, but it would get you home in 1 piece. Realistically speaking you were trained and told NOT to do so. The plane you were in and the engine you were behind had to last for the duration of the war. The regulations were in place for a reason. It's kind of like taking off with a man clinging to each wing. You COULD do it. Nothing stopped you... Except common sense and the rules/regulations that said NOT to.

I don't think the throttle could rotate that far.  I think it was mechanically limited to the max allowed boost setting.

[Wmaker]

And all American radiators are magically more effective than all British radiators by the same exact margin?  Sorry, I don't buy it.  I don't think that data even exists.

Yep and there wouldn't be any constant time anyway as there are many different factors that affect the time in which the coolant would cool in the cooling system like the ambient temp/pressure and the speed at which the aircraft flies etc.

If the times are constant (which) they are, they are generic and arbitary.

[alpini13]

  As to the use of mw-50 injection for germany.....it was a tank that was filled with methanol and water mix,it could be hit and leak and be disabled..they also used nitrous oxide,one was for low alt performance increase..the other for high alt increase......using the low alt boost at high alt gave you no increase in performance,etc. i didnt think we had this in aceshigh...omly wep(war emergency power)