Out of VRAM problem

[Mace2004]

OK, just had my first event like this.  Middle of a fight my screen locks up for a few seconds, goes white, then comes back slowly with lots of stutters.  After a few minutes it began to run normally again.  Text buffer alerted me that I was "Out of Video Memory" with recommendations to shut down everything from anti-aliasing to the Goldstone Deep Space Tracking Network.  Video Memory = 3805.0M, Used = 8.8M, Cnt = 0. In game I'm running 1920x1200 res, AA max, Max Texture Size 1024, Ground Clutter Disabled in Flight, Detailed Water/Terrain with Local Water Reflections on. I'm also using Bump Map Terrain and My Vehicle/Plane.

I was flabbergasted at the VRAM issue since I'm running a GTX 560Ti with 2G of VRAM (along with 4G of mainboard RAM).  I run MSI Afterburner, TrackIR, and Saitek SST while in game.  The TrackIR and Saitek SST I've used for years and the MSI Afterburner was installed along with the 560 a few months ago and have never had a single problem with the graphic card.  Also, my 560 peaked at only 56 deg C during this session.  

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 2/20/2012, 21:36:04
       Machine name: MACE-PC
   Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.110622-1506)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: EVGA__
       System Model: 132-YW-E179-FTW
               BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
          Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     E8500  @ 3.16GHz (2 CPUs), ~4.3GHz
             Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4094MB RAM
          Page File: 1964MB used, 6222MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\Windows
    DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
   User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
 System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
    DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
     DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 64bit Unicode

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
      Display Tab 1: No problems found.
      Display Tab 2: No problems found.
        Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
        Sound Tab 2: No problems found.
        Sound Tab 3: No problems found.
        Sound Tab 4: No problems found.
          Input Tab: No problems found.

--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D:    0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw:  0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay:  0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow:  0/6 (retail)

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
          Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 Ti
       Manufacturer: NVIDIA
          Chip type: GeForce GTX 560 Ti
           DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
         Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_1200&SUBSYS_23841462&REV_A1
     Display Memory: 3805 MB
   Dedicated Memory: 2014 MB
      Shared Memory: 1791 MB
       Current Mode: 1920 x 1200 (32 bit) (59Hz)
       Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
      Monitor Model: SyncMaster
         Monitor Id: SAM03F4
        Native Mode: 1920 x 1200(p) (59.950Hz)
        Output Type: DVI
        Driver Name: nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um
Driver File Version: 8.17.0012.6677 (English)
     Driver Version: 8.17.12.6677
        DDI Version: 11
       Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
  Driver Attributes: Final Retail
   Driver Date/Size: 1/28/2011 03:36:54, 12865128 bytes
        WHQL Logo'd: n/a
    WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
  Device Identifier: {D7B71E3E-5140-11CF-C76D-88031FC2C535}
          Vendor ID: 0x10DE
          Device ID: 0x1200
          SubSys ID: 0x23841462
        Revision ID: 0x00A1
 Driver Strong Name: oem26.inf:NVIDIA_SetA_Devices.NTamd64.6 .1:Section005:8.17.12.6677:pci\ven_10de&dev_1200
     Rank Of Driver: 00E62001
        Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_C ModeVC1_C ModeWMV9_C

          Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 Ti
       Manufacturer: NVIDIA
          Chip type: GeForce GTX 560 Ti
           DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
         Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_1200&SUBSYS_23841462&REV_A1
     Display Memory: 3805 MB
   Dedicated Memory: 2014 MB
      Shared Memory: 1791 MB
       Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)
       Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
      Monitor Model: SMS22A350H
         Monitor Id: SAM07D1
        Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz)
        Output Type: HD15
        Driver Name: nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um
Driver File Version: 8.17.0012.6677 (English)
     Driver Version: 8.17.12.6677
        DDI Version: 11
       Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
  Driver Attributes: Final Retail
   Driver Date/Size: 1/28/2011 03:36:54, 12865128 bytes
        WHQL Logo'd: n/a
    WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
  Device Identifier: {D7B71E3E-5140-11CF-C76D-88031FC2C535}
          Vendor ID: 0x10DE
          Device ID: 0x1200
          SubSys ID: 0x23841462
        Revision ID: 0x00A1
 Driver Strong Name: oem26.inf:NVIDIA_SetA_Devices.NTamd64.6 .1:Section005:8.17.12.6677:pci\ven_10de&dev_1200
     Rank Of Driver: 00E62001
        Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_C ModeVC1_C ModeWMV9_C

-------------
Sound Devices
-------------
            Description: Speakers (Logitech USB Headset)
 Default Sound Playback: Yes
 Default Voice Playback: Yes
            Hardware ID: USB\VID_046D&PID_0A0C&REV_1013&MI_00
        Manufacturer ID: 65535
             Product ID: 65535
                   Type: WDM
            Driver Name: USBAUDIO.sys
         Driver Version: 6.01.7601.17514 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
            WHQL Logo'd: n/a
          Date and Size: 11/20/2010 05:43:52, 109696 bytes
            Other Files:
        Driver Provider: Microsoft
         HW Accel Level: Basic
              Cap Flags: 0x0
    Min/Max Sample Rate: 0, 0
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 0, 0
 Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0
              HW Memory: 0
       Voice Management: No
 EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
   I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No

            Description: Realtek HDMI Output (Realtek High Definition Audio)
 Default Sound Playback: No
 Default Voice Playback: No
            Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0888&SUBSYS_10DE0175&REV_1001
        Manufacturer ID: 1
             Product ID: 100
                   Type: WDM
            Driver Name: RTKVHD64.sys
         Driver Version: 6.00.0001.6449 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
            WHQL Logo'd: n/a
          Date and Size: 8/30/2011 17:28:46, 3069032 bytes
            Other Files:
        Driver Provider: Realtek Semiconductor Corp.
         HW Accel Level: Basic
              Cap Flags: 0x0
    Min/Max Sample Rate: 0, 0
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 0, 0
 Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0
              HW Memory: 0
       Voice Management: No
 EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
   I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No

            Description: Realtek Digital Output (Realtek High Definition Audio)
 Default Sound Playback: No
 Default Voice Playback: No
            Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0888&SUBSYS_10DE0175&REV_1001
        Manufacturer ID: 1
             Product ID: 100
                   Type: WDM
            Driver Name: RTKVHD64.sys
         Driver Version: 6.00.0001.6449 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
            WHQL Logo'd: n/a
          Date and Size: 8/30/2011 17:28:46, 3069032 bytes
            Other Files:
        Driver Provider: Realtek Semiconductor Corp.
         HW Accel Level: Basic
              Cap Flags: 0x0
    Min/Max Sample Rate: 0, 0
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 0, 0
 Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0
              HW Memory: 0
       Voice Management: No
 EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
   I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No

            Description: Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)
 Default Sound Playback: No
 Default Voice Playback: No
            Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0888&SUBSYS_10DE0175&REV_1001
        Manufacturer ID: 1
             Product ID: 100
                   Type: WDM
            Driver Name: RTKVHD64.sys
         Driver Version: 6.00.0001.6449 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
            WHQL Logo'd: n/a
          Date and Size: 8/30/2011 17:28:46, 3069032 bytes
            Other Files:
        Driver Provider: Realtek Semiconductor Corp.
         HW Accel Level: Basic
              Cap Flags: 0x0
    Min/Max Sample Rate: 0, 0
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 0, 0
 Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0
              HW Memory: 0
       Voice Management: No
 EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
   I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No

[Skuzzy]

We really have no contro over this.  The reported used memory is not going to be right for Windows 7 or Vista.  We have not figured out why that is yet.

There are three things that contribute to massive use of video RAM.  Anti-aliasing, when used in conjunction with the new bump mapping options, and the distance slider, and the shadow texture size (@8192 it takes 256MB of video RAM by itself, smoothing increases it).

Out of those three, anti-aliasing is going to take the biggest chunk of video RAM, when used with the new bump mapping options.

Also note, if you are running the Aero desktop for Windows 7/Vista, it also chews up a good amount of video RAM, even when it is not displayed.


The more objects you encounter, the more video RAM is going to be used.  If you do not want to run into this, you need to reduce resource usage of the video RAM.

[bustr]

GPU-Z is a free tool.

It monitors your video card. No install just run it. Sencond tab on the top is for sensors. Bottom are two memory usage feeds. They will tell you the realtime video memory usage in windows. Set it to either show you the maximum memory used so that when you quit the game or minimise it you will see the maximum video memory used during your game session. Or you can have it dump the monitoring to a text log file and read it back later.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/2101/TechPowerUp_GPU-Z_v0.5.9.html

[Skuzzy]

By the way, I was pondering how a 2GB video card could run out of RAM.  It suddenly dawned on me that 2GB of video RAM is being mapped into our 32 bit address space, which then reduces the maximum amount of application memory we can address to 2GB.

In effect, the 2GB video card cannot map its entire address space into our space due to the lack of memory in the 4GB address space, which causes us to get the "out of video ram" error from the video card.

In this case, you need to disable anti-aliasing, or set the "detail range" to something less than what you have it at now.

[BrockS]

I narrowed my VRAM crashes down to building bump maps. I think what is happening, and Skuzzy would know better than I if this could be the case, is that the building bump maps are poulating the memory and the new ones are being loaded faster than the old are swapped out. After a period of time, your VRAM is full and.........crash. Mine usually occured 30-45 minutes into flying depending on the map and scenery (bases etc) encountered. . Back when Microsoft FS2004 came out there was a similar issue with the autogen scenery and it was fixed in a subsequent patch. The scenery would load up as you moved along and ideally would "swap out" of your memory as you encountered newer scenery. Instead, certain of the textures would not leave the memory and over time framerates would slow and ultimately give you an "out of VRAM" message when full.

[Skuzzy]

The basic analogy is like trying to cram 20 gallons of gas into a 10 gallon can and not expecting any overflow.  Afterall, the gas can does hold gas.

Here is an extreme example, but a real one.  I am about to stuff an ATI 7970 into my home computer.  There is more than a good chance I will not be able to run with any of the advanced options due to the memory constraints of the 3GB video card mapping into our 4GB memory space, only leaving 1GB of memory for the game, all the DirectX and Windows libraries.

Heck, I may not be able to run the game at all, no matter what the game settings are, as the game requires about 1GB of system RAM itself.

[LCAMerciful]

I don't know how much VRAM Aero uses up but I found a write up that explains how to set it up to easily turn Aero on and off with just two right clicks of a mouse.  It might free up just enough to get AH running smoothly again!

Be careful as it involves making some changes to the registry.  Relatively harmless but easy to mess something up if you don't know what you're doing.

[Mace2004]

Thanks for the inputs guys.  It looks like the best course of action will be to back off on the AA and sliders.  I'm still not really following Skuzzy's memory math though. 

It suddenly dawned on me that 2GB of video RAM is being mapped into our 32 bit address space, which then reduces the maximum amount of application memory we can address to 2GB.

In effect, the 2GB video card cannot map its entire address space into our space due to the lack of memory in the 4GB address space, which causes us to get the "out of video ram" error from the video card.

I'm running 64Bit Win7 but I take it that AH only runs as a 32bit application and that limits the amount of VRAM it can actually use?  From your example it sounds like what you're saying is that you must subtract whatever VRAM you have from your available system RAM (which seems strangely inefficient).  Is the problem not enough VRAM or not enough RAM left over to run AH?  Also, would this improve if I went to 8GB RAM or would I still be limited to 4GB of usable RAM by AH?  Also, although I'm not going to swap out my 560ti and hate to ask this, but would I have been better off with a 1GB graphics card?

[bustr]

I have 8g of ram win7 64 and a 6770 with 1G but, had to turn off displaying other plane skins becasue of the dramatic screen freezes I would occasionly get along with stuttering in big furballs. Or worse the game would occasionaly CTD in heavily populated areas of the map. Otherwise I have all the bump mapping turned on along with the detail slider fully to the left.

So more video ram on the card past 1G could be biting us in the kester with AH?

[guncrasher]

what about 2 video cards of 1g each?


semp

[Skuzzy]

Thanks for the inputs guys.  It looks like the best course of action will be to back off on the AA and sliders.  I'm still not really following Skuzzy's memory math though.  I'm running 64Bit Win7 but I take it that AH only runs as a 32bit application and that limits the amount of VRAM it can actually use?  From your example it sounds like what you're saying is that you must subtract whatever VRAM you have from your available system RAM (which seems strangely inefficient).  Is the problem not enough VRAM or not enough RAM left over to run AH?  Also, would this improve if I went to 8GB RAM or would I still be limited to 4GB of usable RAM by AH?  Also, although I'm not going to swap out my 560ti and hate to ask this, but would I have been better off with a 1GB graphics card?

I figured this one would be a stumper.

Yes, the game is a 32 bit application, but it has nothing to do with how much video RAM the game can address.

Windows maps all video memory directly into a space where the application can read/write to it.  Windows also restricts the amount of memory an application can use.  Aces High is limited to 4GB of total memory space by the fact that Windows will not allow an application to use more than 4GB of memory.

You can have 32GB of system RAM, but Windows is not going to allow any application to use more than 4GB of that RAM.

So, in your case, our 4GB memory space is being cut down to 2GB useable due to the 2GB on the video card.  The game uses 1GB of that, which leavcees 1GB of system RAM for the rest of the Windows libraries the game needs to run.  That is very tight.  In your case, you probably were not running out of video RAM, but Windows could not map all the video RAM into our address space, which yeilds the same problem.

The only advantage a 64 bit OS gives is the video RAM does not have to get mapped into that 4GB address/memory space and that only works for 64 bit applications.  When the market gets to the point where everyone is running a 64 bit OS, then it will make sense for Aces High to switch.  The unknown issues we will run into are going to be significant making it something that is going to be difficult to do.


SLI, or Crossfire video cards show up as merged.  In other words, if one card has 1GB of RAM, and the other card hasd 1GB of RAM, then there is only 1GB of video RAM.  In Crossfire, the master is the card with the video RAM.  In SLI, the largest amount of video RAM in the system wins.

[FLOTSOM]

Skuzzy,

as this issue with RAM has been one that was brought up in the past and it looks like it will be a continuous plague upon Windows for years to come, what OS would you recommend to run the game under that allows for the maximum use of our systems with the minimum impact upon our resources?

thanx

[Skuzzy]

Windows is the only operating system the game will natively run under. 

By the way, Windows 8 is going to make it worse due to the ever increasing bloat Microsoft keeps piling on.  DirectX performance, in Windows 8, is down a good bit.

[The Fugitive]

I think he ment is win7 32 bit better than win 7 64 bit, or maybe even xp32 or xp 64

[Skuzzy]

I think he ment is win7 32 bit better than win 7 64 bit, or maybe even xp32 or xp 64

None of them would make any difference as they all have the same memory management code.