Perk em

[Bronk]

Better yet, learn ACM and tactics and you won't need to perk those planes you mentioned.

ack-ack

Crazy talk... ackack is crazy.

[shotgunneeley]

ponys 190s and LAs arent a problem in the MA even in my 38 the 16 tho it should be perked why is the spit 14 perked but not the 16 when its the most difficult plane to fly against in the MA...just perk it like a Chog not really high just make people pay for a plane that needs to be slightly perked my 2 cents

Holy run-on sentence, Batman!

[MAINER]

+1! Perk em! I hate run-stangs

[Rino]

They don't need to be perked, they need their ENY lowered so the least bit of imbalance shuts 'em down, especially the la7, P51D, and Spit16. 

     Then everyone will fly the 20 ENY Luftwobble wonder twins..what's the difference?

[Rich52]

The reason why we perk planes is because they are much better than all the others and not because people fly them a lot.

So the implication is if the 262 or C-Hog wasn't perked is people people still wouldn't fly them a lot? And by "much better" dont you simply mean "faster"?

Makes a lot of sense Machfly.

Why are we trying to get the new players out of planes that might make the steep learning curve a little more fun for them?

 Because "Running" isn't learning. Besides if there was some better formula for controlling the vast hordes of only a a models then the introduction of the "niche" planes would be more worthwhile. And maybe this would become less of a Horde game and one where ECM actually mattered

[Karnak]

Because "Running" isn't learning. Besides if there was some better formula for controlling the vast hordes of only a a models then the introduction of the "niche" planes would be more worthwhile. And maybe this would become less of a Horde game and one where ECM actually mattered

Spitfire Mk XVI's, the primary target of this whine, are not good at running.

[caldera]

Spitfire Mk XVI's, the primary target of this whine, are not good at running.

Yes they are.  They run going straight up. 

[Ack-Ack]

So the implication is if the 262 or C-Hog wasn't perked is people people still wouldn't fly them a lot? And by "much better" dont you simply mean "faster"?

Makes a lot of sense Machfly.

 Because "Running" isn't learning. Besides if there was some better formula for controlling the vast hordes of only a a models then the introduction of the "niche" planes would be more worthwhile. And maybe this would become less of a Horde game and one where ECM actually mattered

Machfly is correct, perks are based on the impact the plane/vehicle has on game play and not on usage.

So, please tell us how those planes you mentioned cause an imbalance in the game play that they need to be perked.

ack-ack

[titanic3]

Unperk the Spit14 and Perk the Spit16.

Spit16 does everything. Climb? Check. Speed? Check. Firepower? Check. Roll rate? Check. Turn rate? Check. A light perk of 10 is fine with me. Put two pilots of equal skill, one in a Spit16, one in a La7/K4/P51/Tempest and the spit16 wins everytime. The only plane that poses a serious threat to a spit16 (at least 1v1), is a F4U4. Spit16 outperforms every single plane but one.

Not whining here, just stating facts. Anything a Spit16 can't outturn, it can out-E fight, and vice versa.

With the La-7 and P51, their only real strength is sheer speed which can be used to escape any situation. Their maneuverability is easily matched by most planes or even outclassed.

[SmokinLoon]

you misunderstand me. all three to be used effectively need a bit of skill. unlike in a tempest which u can dive in a 600mph and have the plane push itself back up with no compression problems and 4 20mm hizookas that with a few well placed rounds will take down any aircraft. even the spit14 when used properly at altitude is a helluva plane to reckon with. this conversation should be about lowering the perk of the spit14 and not lowering the eny or perking said 3 rides. put a new player in a tempest and then a 51. see which he lands kills in very easily and which he dies in more often. a spit 16 is very easily outflown and i only have trouble in my 51 against a veteran in a spit 16. the La7 also can be very easily beaten unless the pilot with the higher skill flies the lala also and so said with the 51 too. none of them need to be lower eny theyre perfect as is.

The Tempest is more of a challenge to fly than the P51D.  The P51D is far more forgiving and more versatile. The Tempest if fast, sure.  It hits hard, sure. But it inst the most maneuverable plane out there.  A new guy is going to have an easier time in the P51D, imo.  The Tempest isn't a plane to hop in to a just fly.  The P51D is.  In the Tempest, managing the torque, right turn, rudder, and raw speed isn't a beginners treat, it has more quirks than the pony.  The P51D can go either way and is far more stable (forgiving).  In the hands of a vet, sure the edge goes to the Tempest.  Matter of opinion, I know.

I like the self scoring on how you defeat other aircraft.  Remove the pilot, compare the actual ability of the aircraft then the "newb" variable is non-existant.  Take each category for what it is worth.  The La7 is a better bomber interceptor/hunter (especially low level) than either the P51D or Spit16. The P51D is better at escort duty and ground pounding. The Spit16 is more capable at dogfighter than either the La7 or P51D, both find themselves out-turned, out rolled, and out-climbed, and will eventually have to run like they always do but even then the Spit16 can hang with them for a bit because it accelerates and retains E very well.                 

Lastly, I wont argue that the Spit14 needs its perk reduced.  There are a whole host of aircraft that needs to be checked both in ENY and perk price.  The list is getting too crowded at 25+ ENY, and too few down low, IMO.  Start down low at 2 ENY, bring some of the 15 ENY down to 12, etc etc.  Space 'em out a bit more.     

[MachFly]

Unperk the Spit14 and Perk the Spit16.

Spit16 does everything. Climb? Check. Speed? Check. Firepower? Check. Roll rate? Check. Turn rate? Check. A light perk of 10 is fine with me. Put two pilots of equal skill, one in a Spit16, one in a La7/K4/P51/Tempest and the spit16 wins everytime. The only plane that poses a serious threat to a spit16 (at least 1v1), is a F4U4. Spit16 outperforms every single plane but one.

No, spit16 is rather slow. Sure it does most of the things good but it's bag at high altitude, is slow in general, and does not have much fuel.
The reason why most people don't understand why spit14 is perked is because most people don't know how to fly it. Think of it this way, spit14 is a Spitfire that's faster than a P-51.

[Noir]

No, spit16 is rather slow.

the spit16 is one of the fastest accelerating planes.

[MachFly]

the spit16 is one of the fastest accelerating planes.

I never said anything about it's acceleration. Sure it accelerates fast and that's an advantage but the only thing you'll be able to do with that acceleration is regain your energy because soon it will stop accelerating and then most likely the red guy will catch up.

[Debrody]

spit16 does 344 on the deck
same as the p38L/J, the D-jugs, 109G2
only only 6 mph slower than the B-pony, La-5, 109G14
in the same time, it climbs just as good as the k4, turns like crazy, very steady even at very low speeds (cant be roped, good in the scissors), rolls like a 190, accelerates like a tempest up to 250mph, still in par with the k4 up to 300, also can reach 450-470 in a dive, has uber cannons...    training wheels.
Im against to perk them, they fly timid enough already...  doh
 

[SmokinLoon]

I never said anything about it's acceleration. Sure it accelerates fast and that's an advantage but the only thing you'll be able to do with that acceleration is regain your energy because soon it will stop accelerating and then most likely the red guy will catch up.

The thing about the Spit16 is that while it isnt a speed demon from 0 to 350 TAS down low, all it needs is a wee bit of nose down to gain that much more momentum to hang with the speed demons for a bit.  More than once a Spit16 has fallen in my 6 while I was in a P51, Dora, P47x, or other such "faster" plane and the Spit16 simply hangs with me for quite a bit even though the stated speed is well below what the charts say.  The Spit 16 is faster than many give it credit for, the charts do not tell the entire story, they never do.

The term "slow" can not be applied to the Spit16 is any manner.  When gauging it speed from 0-max @ altitude it still ranks well above average in terms of LW arena planes.  There are very few planes than can actually run away from it in the short term.