Saturday Night Scenario Frame 1 this Saturday!

[Guppy35]

thats sad seeing as how kills dont really count in this scenario objectives do...

I'm gonna have to write up a "Scenarios For Dummies" book  

You get what you want from it BAR.  You have Panzer Lehr in your sig.  How much have you learned and passed on to the tankers about that history?  Or is this just a chance to point and shoot for you?  Was anything remotely fun for you?  Did even for a second anything suck you in?

There was a time where folks really got into it with the history,  their unit, and putting time into making the experience more then just another time in another arena.  That seems to have gone with the long time scenario vets.  

I died in about the first 1/2 hour yesterday after getting mugged in a 23 v 8 fight.  But you know what?  That fight is going to stick with me in the memories I have of great scenario moments cause it mirrored an actual moment in the real history of the 428th FS I had read about.  I can name those moments back to the first scenario I ever flew in Airwarrior.  Do I wish I'd done it better  yesterday and not gotten mugged? Sure.  It was tough to wait on a second sortie.  But this isn't the MA and there are no promises of the fight you want.

What I do know is there is no way to write up and design a scenario that is going to make everyone happy unless they are willing to get into the thing more then just showing up.  It's amazing to me how many folks never read the write up.  Short of going door to door, there isn't much more we can do.  It was linked in many threads and is still right where it's always been.  Yet folks are acting like they had no clue about objectives.

One of the reasons I give you such a hard time about taking a Tiger is to me it speaks to missing the point.  I'd have thought a guy who begged for the M18 like you did would have killed for a chance to use it in a scenario so you could teach folks some history and show what the thing could do.  To me taking a Tiger says you were more worried about winning and getting kills then anything else.

I give the Jet jockeys the same hard time for the same reason.  

If that's what your goal is for a scenario then more power to you and to those guys, but if that's the case then we might as well skip any map that is historical and quit trying to design them around certain time frames or battles.  Might as well make it the DA furball lake with tanks in the middle and see who lives the longest.

I know i sound like a preacher and I won't apologize for it.  I wish I could run the tapes in my head for you to see all those moments from scenarios over the past 15 years where I was 'inside' the plane and the history came alive.  It's an amazing thing that a computer sim can do that.  I couldn't tell you who won or lost any of those scenarios, but I can describe those moments of immersion down to the last second.  if you've got a way to help folks get that, I'm all ears.

[321BAR]

I'm gonna have to write up a "Scenarios For Dummies" book  

You get what you want from it BAR.  You have Panzer Lehr in your sig.  How much have you learned and passed on to the tankers about that history?  Or is this just a chance to point and shoot for you?  Was anything remotely fun for you?  Did even for a second anything suck you in?

There was a time where folks really got into it with the history,  their unit, and putting time into making the experience more then just another time in another arena.  That seems to have gone with the long time scenario vets.  

I died in about the first 1/2 hour yesterday after getting mugged in a 23 v 8 fight.  But you know what?  That fight is going to stick with me in the memories I have of great scenario moments cause it mirrored an actual moment in the real history of the 428th FS I had read about.  I can name those moments back to the first scenario I ever flew in Airwarrior.  Do I wish I'd done it better  yesterday and not gotten mugged? Sure.  It was tough to wait on a second sortie.  But this isn't the MA and there are no promises of the fight you want.

What I do know is there is no way to write up and design a scenario that is going to make everyone happy unless they are willing to get into the thing more then just showing up.  It's amazing to me how many folks never read the write up.  Short of going door to door, there isn't much more we can do.  It was linked in many threads and is still right where it's always been.  Yet folks are acting like they had no clue about objectives.

One of the reasons I give you such a hard time about taking a Tiger is to me it speaks to missing the point.  I'd have thought a guy who begged for the M18 like you did would have killed for a chance to use it in a scenario so you could teach folks some history and show what the thing could do.  To me taking a Tiger says you were more worried about winning and getting kills then anything else.

I give the Jet jockeys the same hard time for the same reason.  

If that's what your goal is for a scenario then more power to you and to those guys, but if that's the case then we might as well skip any map that is historical and quit trying to design them around certain time frames or battles.  Might as well make it the DA furball lake with tanks in the middle and see who lives the longest.

I know i sound like a preacher and I won't apologize for it.  I wish I could run the tapes in my head for you to see all those moments from scenarios over the past 15 years where I was 'inside' the plane and the history came alive.  It's an amazing thing that a computer sim can do that.  I couldn't tell you who won or lost any of those scenarios, but I can describe those moments of immersion down to the last second.  if you've got a way to help folks get that, I'm all ears.

my friend. if everyone came to a scenario to have fun and put their best into it then id love scenarios forever. adding the history makes it even more memorable

The reasons i didnt choose to roll an M18 this scenario come from a few points of view corky.. the most influential was that someone asked me to drive the axis armor to victory this time and i wasnt going to say no to helpin out the other would be stick the axis team on the allied side and youd have me in an M18. for me i will say i have much more fun with many of the axis players than i have had in previous scenarios as allied. i still remember alot of drama during BoG that partially ruined my time in that scenario. if not for the epic battles each frame during that scenario i would never have stuck around.

Fun is why im here and as a GL or commander i try to put my best foward each frame and whether good or bad ideas its still better to have the idea heard out over getting shut down the moment i speak saying i have no idea what im talking about. now i will not say the allies this time around are like that but from past experience ill stick with my axis friends whenever it involves GVs



Edit: also if i even started the cheese-it joke or the QUAH!!! joke on allies i would have been yelled at by a few

[wil3ur]

I agree and disagree with your post Corky.

Personally, I love the P38.  It was the first model airplane I ever built and my whole life I've had a huge love for that BBW.  That being said, I've also had a long love of German aviation.  I don't have the same lust for the plane that I have for a 38, but the overall romance of German aviation over the first part of the century has me more interested than anything.  Play style has a lot to do with it too...  unfortunately there's not a lot of patrolling or escort missions MA.  The objectives in the arena just don't match that.  The most fun I have in the game is hunting out buffs in a 262 and setting up the 500+MPH pass hoping to score a couple of quick kills.  It's a high risk low reward game style.  Every time I up, I'm looking to lose at least 150perkies.  Every time I land, even with 10+ kills, I'm looking to make maybe 2-5 perks.  Needless to say, if I didn't have a little bit of an understanding of what I do, I couldn't fly a 262 (I was back down to 0 perks again last week, so I really don't know what I'm doing... ;P)

Scenario-wise though, I've always flown axis, just because I've yet to fly in a scenario where the allies aren't setup to be the dominate air force and the LW has been fighting tooth and nail for it's airspace.

We got 4 262's...  how many P51D's and Tempests were in that frame?  The rest of Germany's flights are 15ENY or below.  A large amount of allied planes were 5-10 ENY or 5ENY and perked.  I'm not complaining, just pointing out that overall, the LW is at a disadvantage in the air, and performed admirably despite the fact.

Fun fights, great frame, I hope more can show up for frame 2.

 

[321BAR]

I'm gonna have to write up a "Scenarios For Dummies" book  

You get what you want from it BAR.  You have Panzer Lehr in your sig.  How much have you learned and passed on to the tankers about that history?  Or is this just a chance to point and shoot for you?  Was anything remotely fun for you?  Did even for a second anything suck you in?

also ive been learning the panzer lehr's history in the rhine area since this started and you'll be quite upset at what really happened on the ground war

as much as i hate to say A40 was taken by infantry the rush that was made was as close as this scenario will get to being accurate on the ground

[Guppy35]

I agree and disagree with your post Corky.

Personally, I love the P38.  It was the first model airplane I ever built and my whole life I've had a huge love for that BBW.  That being said, I've also had a long love of German aviation.  I don't have the same lust for the plane that I have for a 38, but the overall romance of German aviation over the first part of the century has me more interested than anything.  Play style has a lot to do with it too...  unfortunately there's not a lot of patrolling or escort missions MA.  The objectives in the arena just don't match that.  The most fun I have in the game is hunting out buffs in a 262 and setting up the 500+MPH pass hoping to score a couple of quick kills.  It's a high risk low reward game style.  Every time I up, I'm looking to lose at least 150perkies.  Every time I land, even with 10+ kills, I'm looking to make maybe 2-5 perks.  Needless to say, if I didn't have a little bit of an understanding of what I do, I couldn't fly a 262 (I was back down to 0 perks again last week, so I really don't know what I'm doing... ;P)

Scenario-wise though, I've always flown axis, just because I've yet to fly in a scenario where the allies aren't setup to be the dominate air force and the LW has been fighting tooth and nail for it's airspace.

We got 4 262's...  how many P51D's and Tempests were in that frame?  The rest of Germany's flights are 15ENY or below.  A large amount of allied planes were 5-10 ENY or 5ENY and perked.  I'm not complaining, just pointing out that overall, the LW is at a disadvantage in the air, and performed admirably despite the fact.

Fun fights, great frame, I hope more can show up for frame 2.

 

The LW did a great job.  No complaints.  If your passion is the Luftwaffe then dive in and have a blast.  Forget about points, who wins, etc.  Look out and see the guys in your group flying your wing and let yourself go back in time and imagine what it was like.  Pour it over yourself and learn even more. 

I GL'd II/JG54 back in an Airwarrior B of B scenario and I never learned so much about them as I did then.  The guys flying with me got it in spades and ran with it too.  Despite my Allied leanings, I was able to lose myself in my 109E and had a great time.  I'm still partial to II/JG54 and 109Es because of that.

All I'm trying to say is if all you come to a scenario for is to point and shoot and see how many you can land, you might as well go back to the MA cause you are missing the point.  And I don't mean you Wil3er, even if you did clobber me

As I said to someone else, I spent far more time in the tower then I did flying yesterday. But that five minute, sucked back in time, and connected to the real 428th, brawl made it worth it.  It was added to the many other scenario moments that have stuck with me over the years.

There are going to be lulls in the action.  There will be gaps to fill, and it always isn't going to go the way each player wants it to.  But where else can a bunch of cartoon fighter pilot wannabes go back in time and try and catch a piece of history?

[wil3ur]

...that being said, we had two German walk-ons in our squad that night.  It was very helpful for the immersion.    

[Raphael]

I want to learn german just for playing here and role playing  Imagine my terrible attemp at speaking german with a Brazillian accent! how realistic is that eh! 

[Guppy35]

I want to learn german just for playing here and role playing  Imagine my terrible attemp at speaking german with a Brazillian accent! how realistic is that eh! 

Sad part is eighty percent of the player base probably has no clue of Brazil's contribution in WW2 including the combat flown by their Jug drivers in the MTO against the Axis.

Would be fun to see you leading the Brazilian P47s in an MTO based scenario.

[Raphael]

tell me about it! once, the AvA was at late italy scenario. I flew the p47 there for a while... it felt really good! but there was no scenario going on at the time, just me in the silly brazillian skin.

Even told the fellow I was flying with about the ostriches

[jollyFE]

Holy crap, that fight over 109 was a blast.  We (.7 III/JG11) were at like 28k when we saw the furball developing below us.  We (6 or 7 total) dove in and only saw jugs initially mixing it up with the 109s.  Then out of nowhere the Temps and Spits jumped in and things got interesting, seems you could hardly turn without some sort of target in front of you.  Finally had to dive out of the fight with what seemed like 17 Spits, a Temp, and a few Jugs on my tail.  Heard a squaddie calling for help so I turned back to try and help and we ended up being way outnumbered so we ran to refuel.  I did manage to get a quick burst into a Spit somewhere during the fight (sorry bout that hotard...lol). 

Anyways, that was the most fun I've had in recent memory in AH..................walk ons are welcome so please give it a try.

[uptown]

thats sad seeing as how kills dont really count in this scenario objectives do...

Wasn't my and the rest of the P-51Ds objective in the scenario to kill Axis aircraft in hopes of gaining air superiority?  

Our orders were to intercept 190s and 109s and kill them, so that the guys tasked with actually taking A40 could get in to do their job. So in my mind getting kills was the whole point of the 51s being there to begin with. Yes, the main objective was to take and hold A40, but each flight group had it's individual orders and objectives that had to be achieved in order to make that happen. 

[Wildcat1]

I can say that despite the unfortunate recurring circumstance of low numbers, this scenario and ECA have both had their great moments, both flying and planning as a GL. For instance I have three German pilots in my Gruppe, and it is always fun hearing them and immersing myself. I even had one speak to the other in German during the tank battle in the coordination frame! That was great.

This is why I love scenarios, and in particular early war scenarios. Rangoon was a blast, and I really got a sense of what it was like to truly be outnumbered and outclassed. Flying those P-40s to the edge of their ability trying to defend this incredibly important objective while the CO was almost yelling over teamspeak "everyone needs to get back to Rangoon NOW, large force of betties and Ki-45s inbound".

Same thing with BoG, writing period-correct After Action Reports after each frame, and being able to name my plane. And The Final Battle, where while the scenario was hypothetical, you could really feel the desparation that the Luftwaffe would have felt, the exuberance of an early, quick victory and the exhaustion of eventual defeat.

That's why I was so ticked when coral sea was cancelled. I get so immersed in Naval Aviation, and I would have been leading wildcats for half the event. I went as far as to set up optional training sessions for my group, to learn the tactics of James Thach. We would have been using the real tactics.

That immersion I think is starting to come back. It was great with ECA but I think the incorporation of the ground war, as in previous events, is a great thing. I love being able to fly 109s in a similar manner as they would have been in this stage of the war. I think people should definitely give this a shot.

Despite lower numbers, I think scenarios are as good as ever, and will get even better

[Butcher]

One of the reasons I give you such a hard time about taking a Tiger is to me it speaks to missing the point.  I'd have thought a guy who begged for the M18 like you did would have killed for a chance to use it in a scenario so you could teach folks some history and show what the thing could do.  To me taking a Tiger says you were more worried about winning and getting kills then anything else.

I give the Jet jockeys the same hard time for the same reason.  

If that's what your goal is for a scenario then more power to you and to those guys, but if that's the case then we might as well skip any map that is historical and quit trying to design them around certain time frames or battles.  Might as well make it the DA furball lake with tanks in the middle and see who lives the longest.

I agree with your point - the history behind the game is slowing slipping away, but you must understand there are those who "want" to learn and others who don't. In the main arena I generally fly an odd ball aircraft every tour - with something that I usually fly more often. This tour for example I am zipping around in a La-5fn, while reading everything I can (granted if I can get the books in english, so far I got burned on two manuals and both were in polish/russian).

You give "Jet jocks" a bad name, but in reality Jagdgeschwader 7 was not only the first squad I created myself in game a few years ago, but this was when I started reading the background history of squadrons.
So it wasn't chosen just to "win" scenarios, then again I don't expect you to understand either - only point and criticize.

[Guppy35]

I agree with your point - the history behind the game is slowing slipping away, but you must understand there are those who "want" to learn and others who don't. In the main arena I generally fly an odd ball aircraft every tour - with something that I usually fly more often. This tour for example I am zipping around in a La-5fn, while reading everything I can (granted if I can get the books in english, so far I got burned on two manuals and both were in polish/russian).

You give "Jet jocks" a bad name, but in reality Jagdgeschwader 7 was not only the first squad I created myself in game a few years ago, but this was when I started reading the background history of squadrons.
So it wasn't chosen just to "win" scenarios, then again I don't expect you to understand either - only point and criticize.

And if that's the case you are forgiven for flying a jet

[LilMak]

What's wrong with fat chicks?  Especially ones on unicorns?   

Nothing wrong with the big girls. I love making my fat jug do skinny plane stuff.

Scenarios are a new thing for me. The lulls in the action make the fights MUCH more immersive. I don't mind sticking to objectives and would've gladly jumped in a m3 had I burned up my lives early. Even if kills don't count towards the objective, air superiority does, and the large number of luft aircraft left @ 40 when most of us were in ground attack mode was likely our downfall. Win lose or draw, I had a blast pitting my D-25 against K-4s, Doras, and 262s. I plan to be more of a fixture on Saturday nights, even in jugless battles. WSDG is a good scenario to get people into the addiction because of the plane selection.