Changing of the Guard Frame 01 AXIS AAR Comments

[Bannor]

Well, looking at how much damage incurred on both sides (Allied 9, Axis 10), the over all of successful defenses should be noted.
 We were intercepted by P40s otw to A34. I was in the lead when they came in from the northwest and they got into the trailing bombers. And then a second group came in and one of them got my starboard engine throwing off my calibration. It slowed me down enough that I was becoming a magnet for the P40s coming in. I managed 2 kills at that point but was unable to get my bombs to the field. I should have ditched the wounded bird to keep my speed up. I lost all 3 bombers and overall our strike on A34 only managed to get 1 gun emplacement, and that was because 2 of my squaddies discod 10 min. after take off, so they went in while the others were being chased north. My squaddies were having trouble with the manual calibration which made me laugh. It's been so long since they had to use it. I practiced before the event so I was confident about it. I didn't anticipate the effects of losing an engine, and I hate to give up a plane for any reason.

  to Oaktree and the 353rd and  to the defenders of A34. You did your job well enough!

[APDrone]

Besides next time I wont order my boys to follow something we cant catch, should have left them be and went for the other attackers, Was my mistake never to happen again.   

I'm surprised nobody has responded to this comment, as you've made it a couple of times already.  There were NO other attackers to that field except us. The other squad was a no-show,. and they were supposed to be bombers like us.  Had you not attacked us, you would have not seen any other action... so.. would that be better?

[Butcher]

I'm surprised nobody has responded to this comment, as you've made it a couple of times already.  There were NO other attackers to that field except us. The other squad was a no-show,. and they were supposed to be bombers like us.  Had you not attacked us, you would have not seen any other action... so.. would that be better?

Its an anomaly, same as the P40E squad that was suppose to intercept Ki67s - it happens every now and then, frankly by landing aircrafts without risking getting shot down for trying to catch something the same speed of us would be the smarter play.
Every now and then it happens, if there were escorts it would of played out evenly, however I knew the Axis were suppose to have a decisive victory after the first frame total massacre.

[Shifty]

The entire FSO has been messed up for one, for example my squad was suppose to have 7-10 pilots - we ended up with 15 on the first frame in Corsairs, second Pand screwed up and believed there was an ALT Cap when there wasn't, so we pretty much slaughtered his group and had enough pilots left over to go hunting, instead of losing quite a few.

Actually Pand didn't screw up, he may not have understood that there was no alt cap but he didn't screw up. He escorted his charges and his squad did the best they could considering the situation they found themselves in. I can't say the same thing for you guys. Your commitment was 7-10 pilots and you flew 15. It is recorded in the logs and it is a clear violation of the rules and one you even admit to. You could have flown with 12 and sat 3 down but you chose to fly 15 and in Corsairs no less. Yet you complain about the difficulty of intercepting Ki-67s in Frame 2 after flying more Corsairs than you were supposed to in Frame 1?

I know the Axis were suppose to have a decisive victory given the first frame screw ups

however I knew the Axis were suppose to have a decisive victory after the first frame total massacre.

You've made this statement twice in this thread. How do you know this and from where did you attain this knowledge? The Ki-67s have been in the setup since it's conception. As HighTone pointed out to sub for the Ki-49. The USAAF has P-38s available in this setup that could have been assigned CAP as well. The increased area of operations for the Ki-61 in Frame-2 was not just to help the Axis. Ki-61s did in fact operate from Rabaul for a short time in 1943 while they could be maintained in flying condition. Below is a photo of the remains of two of them at Rabaul's Vunakanau airfield.



So you really don't KNOW anything as much as you're just throwing things against the wall to see what sticks. This is the FSO you don't always get the best airplane in the setup. If you think you or your squadron has some right to the best aircraft every frame.. You're wrong. The great FSO squads adapt to their ride and do their utmost to accomplish their mission. Win or lose they don't do a lot of crowing or complaining. You guys have beat the stuffing out of this dead horse and the smell is going to start sticking to you.

[Stampf]

I'm surprised nobody has responded to this comment, as you've made it a couple of times already.  

I'm not.

[Viper61]

My observation on Frame 2 and the potential AXIS win.  My opinion the setup was much better than Frame 01 and it provided the CIC's with many more options than I had in Frame 01 as the AXIS CIC.  So Kudo's to Shifty for providing that into the match <S>

The AXIS plan that Perdweeb planned was unorthodox and high risk.  When I first saw it I thought at best this would end up a dead even outcome.  But it didn't.  The squads that had the really tuff Buff missions pulled them off with a high survival rate which surprised me.  And this meant twice or three times the numbers of defenders over the targets the ALLIES had to hit vs. Frame 01.  When that many more fighters are available then that means scouts out and looking and when done correctly like ours did near A43 nothing got in close without the defenders knowing about it.  The ALLIES tried some deception tactics in the west but the radio chatter and buffer traffic figured it out quickly and it didn't work either.  The key however was in the unified control at the bases we had to defend.  Very well organized and controlled.  Not perfect as nothing is but we made it really tuff for the ALLIES.

At 43 where I was Perdweeb and KN's superbly controlled that engagement.  Once the scouts located the buffs nearly 50 miles out at only 15K their fate was sealed as multiple AXIS squads lined up at alt to dive in.  The Spits did the best that they could but getting hit by "a lot" of fighters in a coordinated attack isn't easy to handle.  Nearly text book coordinated attack on a bomber formation from what I saw.

Also the AXIS started with 15 more pilots than the ALLIES.  Not a large difference.  But I think the locations of the short pilots might have made a difference.

In the end the AXIS plan beat the ALLIED plan, in my opinion.  And I really don't think adjusting the planes would have changed that.  Perdweeb maximized his combat power at exactly the right locations and most importantly at the right times.  And then applied it like a hammer.

Kudos to Perdweeb and his plan <S>

[perdue3]

Thank you Viper for your kind words. It was indeed extremely risky. But I can do math and it all worked out in my head. I am thankful to the bomber guys for executing so well and making it happen when it mattered. I cannot take full credit however, Devil and Sukov helped out tremendously with the orders.

<S>

[Butcher]

Actually Pand didn't screw up, he may not have understood that there was no alt cap but he didn't screw up. He escorted his charges and his squad did the best they could considering the situation they found themselves in. I can't say the same thing for you guys. Your commitment was 7-10 pilots and you flew 15. It is recorded in the logs and it is a clear violation of the rules and one you even admit to. You could have flown with 12 and sat 3 down but you chose to fly 15 and in Corsairs no less. Yet you complain about the difficulty of intercepting Ki-67s in Frame 2 after flying more Corsairs than you were supposed to in Frame 1?

If you want to sit Top Gun out the third frame I understand, since we clearly violated the rules - I completely understand. I admitted in the email we had 15 - its random we have more then 12 on at one time, I DID say in the email if we ever had more then 12 *again* I would certainly have pilots sit out - Frame 2 we didn't boost more then 10 pilots, I doubt we will ever get back to 15 - If you want we can either sit out frame 3 or boost the numbers to 11-15? I won't be attending the third frame, going to sit out this FSO - hopefully we can even manage 7.

[DrBone1]

  I want to first point out that this is the first time you have heard from MY SQUAD about anything involving FSO on the second note I would also like to point out how stupid you made yourself look with that post Shifty.

I could say more but FSO is a different ball game and unlike you I wont resort to talking smack about you or the group you come from.

Pand made the mistake of thinking a alt cap was in place which costs his group dearly, Sounds like a "screw up" kinda situation (no offense to Pand) So yes he did screw up, Even if I had 12 Pilots those Buffs would have never made it through.

We do not argue anything about the planes we are put in we only expressed that I made a bad call on attacking Buffs that out run us, You're statement in the above quote is BS.

Another thing I honestly would believe Butcher over you any day of the week and without a Doubt I guarantee he knows more about WW2 History than you , when he is not drunk. 

Now had you not posted with such hatred remarks towards my squad I would not have posted, If you wish to continue this send a pm don't be shy. 

[Pand]

Pand made the mistake of thinking a alt cap was in place which costs his group dearly, Sounds like a "screw up" kinda situation (no offense to Pand) So yes he did screw up, Even if I had 12 Pilots those Buffs would have never made it through.

I didn't screw up!!!      My orders said 25K limit--- that's my story and I'm sticking to it!   

[DrBone1]

  I have much respect for you and the DD squad Pand, When I say "you guys would have died anyway" I mean literally 1-2 more squads were right behind us about 7k back inb to you also.

Flying F4U1s also btw.

[Pand]

I have much respect for you and the DD squad Pand, When I say "you guys would have died anyway" I mean literally 1-2 more squads were right behind us about 7k back inb to you also.

Flying F4U1s also btw.

Yeah I don't disagree--- even co-alt we might have gotten another kill or two but still would have been a slaughter, the longer the fight, the faster we die!  

[DrBone1]

  Pand,DDs 

[Butcher]

Bone! I dont drink and post on the BBS, I fly perk planes and crash into mountains - Although Shifty did point out one detail - the Ki-61s were moved into Wewak airfield to reinforce, and the Ki-49 and Betty was the standard bombers, however the Ki-43 was the main stay fighter in the area, Lae and other sat fields throughout the area. I simply pointed out if he's talking historical - then how does the Ki-67 substitute for the Ki-49? Its extremely fast and heavily armed with armor. Betty would of been a more honest trade off if you are talking historical terms.
Another funny number, the Ki-61s were plagued by mechanical problems pointed out in the book "Fire in the skies" where replacement parts were not simple to come by, a mechanic couldn't simply go to a destroyed plane at the end of the runway and get spare parts, if he did this he was destroying his emperors personal aircraft and a big NO NO. Not like american, for example VT-8 once ripped apart a bunch of aircrafts to patch together one TBM on Guadalcanal just to do bombing sorties, ironically when replacement planes came in the aircraft crashed on landing few days later.
Japanese had a horrible logistics problem in the Pacific, simply put a mechanic couldn't take spare parts off one plane to fix another, they had to wait for spare parts.

I was simply pointing the historical aspects as being a little off. Here we point Ki-61s are historically "added" to the scenario, but were flying planes that didnt see service until later in the war, I don't even recall one 67 over Wewak or Lae for that matter.

I know there is balancing to go along with the FSO and such, I was just being pesky over fact I hate it being misrepresented so badly.

/shutters at thought of Bf110 for Ki-45s

[Shifty]

Ahh Fire in the Sky... Great book I got it back in the early 2000s huge damn thing. Now you're talking Butcher, you're not just throwing up things like The Axis were supposed to win Frame II. No they were not. Victory was intended for those  who grabbed it. I am about to be late for work and have to go. If you want later we can go over things like...

I know there is balancing to go along with the FSO and such, I was just being pesky over fact I hate it being misrepresented so badly.

With the distances of on some of our maps and versions of our aircraft and the complete lack of certain aircraft.. It is hard to get a PTO setup without the same old thing each and every time.
I expected more out of the A6M3s in Frame one and I expected more out of the Corsairs in Frame two. Nobody was setup to win either frame it was meant to be won by the side that grabbed victory.
Like I said I'm late for work we can talk later if you'd like. So you don't want to see 110s or Nicks?