HardCore

[jimson]

AvA generally has some population starting around 9pm est. We try to make a special effort on Tuesday nights so that is a good bet.

When we can, we use small maps and a small population can provide a pretty good time.

We usually run no enemy icons. We don't claim that that is more realistic but it does give it a different feel and the majority of people who try it, like it.

Ok....If I see numbers in A vs A, I will be sure to pad my score at the expense of yours like the other 8 guys who own you and somehow fly there without it being apparent in the arena selection screen.

The sad part is that I have only once (11 months ago) seen numbers above zero population and that only lasted a couple of hours before it went back to zero.

The arena can go from zero to 10 to 20 players in a heartbeat so you will need to check it more than once a night to see if anyone is in there.

My suggestion is to check it out on Tuesdays shortly after 9pm est.

[Zoney]

Gentleman <S>

Deadstik is still pretty new here so let's try and cut him a bit of slack.

The AVA is more "Hardcore" then the mains are and enjoys a limited clientele.

I think what you are suggesting Deadstik, is much more severe and therefore might have an even smaller following.

There are things that you cannot emulate in the main arena' base on your suggestions, but there are things that you can.

You and you alone decide how you fly and you can do some of the things you suggest for your "Hardcore" arena without forcing the game to provide them.

[deadstikmac]

Gentleman <S>

Deadstik is still pretty new here so let's try and cut him a bit of slack.

The AVA is more "Hardcore" then the mains are and enjoys a limited clientele.

I think what you are suggesting Deadstik, is much more severe and therefore might have an even smaller following.

There are things that you cannot emulate in the main arena' base on your suggestions, but there are things that you can.

You and you alone decide how you fly and you can do some of the things you suggest for your "Hardcore" arena without forcing the game to provide them.

  yes sir I am still very much a dodo, not even close to an upperclassman...

There are some things I do every time I log. My first flight of the night consists of more realistic goals and flight planning. Three reload rearms later I land what I took off. Take a small break. Then depending on my mood start fireballing with everyone else or do something with squad mates ect... But I never hang on to the mentality of its ok if I get shot down because I can just re-up.

 Because of that mentality of reup over survival I bet people take risk factors and ingore them where in truth they would have to change their corps throwing tactics out. Bring some skill along with good wingmen, mix in solid decision making and have a different tactical approach to combat.

[deadstikmac]

Over all it was just a thought to make tactics the paramount focus.

I can do this all day in the MA with everything I suggested so far in regards to mentality but that's thrown out the window when 3 Dora's zoom down on me and my wingman ONLY making head on passes at us until their superior tactics works out for them.... In a arena where you can not fly by your clipboard radar, you have no icons to sit 10k above and watch, there is only ONE mistake you need to make to end your night in the HC arena and send you back to the MA for an hour, humbly I would bet you approach that situation a lot differently.

I will have to explore the AvA and FSO and other Special Events now that is starting too sound more like what I'm looking for.

[Krusty]

PUH-leeze, Zoney....

The AVA is not more "hard core" at all... Its an arbitrarily decided set of rules that a select few think is "more elite" and "requiring more awesome skillz" that they mandate based upon their own prejudiced ideas taken from the IL2 community.

It's far more gamey than the MA, even. 1.0 fuel burn with bases 10 miles apart means every plane flies around near empty weight. Almost every time I'm in there it's nothing but people hiding from fights until they think they can pick without being seen. Flying without icons is akin to flying legally blind, and no pilot would be allowed up in the air, ever, with the kind of vision it provides. In reality you can spot airplanes with great clarity at very long ranges. The select few AvA bandwagon-riders use TrackIR and maximum zoom to get around this but don't be fooled -- they have found a way to game the limitations they set for themselves.

It isn't any more realistic nor is it any more elite, and the constant claims that it takes more skill, talent, and l33tness to fly in the AvA is just self-stroking on their part. They throw a condescending attitude into any conversation to the contrary and with a dismissive wave ignore any details, facts, or logical/scientific arguments that counter what they want to believe in.

[caldera]

Flying low and slow: that is fun for many people in here.  Flying on the edge (because you don't actually die) and doing things the real pilots were not meant to do, but could - that is more fun than disengaging a target, because there is another bandit coming in and you might have a fair fight on your hands.    If everyone flew "not to die", this game would be boring as Hell and quickly go out of business.

Be thankful that people take risks.  Those pilots allow you and all your wingmen to swoop in and tag-team them and then return to triumphant fanfare. 

[deadstikmac]

Flying low and slow: that is fun for many people in here.  Flying on the edge (because you don't actually die) and doing things the real pilots were not meant to do, but could - that is more fun than disengaging a target, because there is another bandit coming in and you might have a fair fight on your hands.    If everyone flew "not to die", this game would be boring as Hell and quickly go out of business.

Be thankful that people take risks.  Those pilots allow you and all your wingmen to swoop in and tag-team them and then return to triumphant fanfare. 

Agreed and there is nothing to say that everyone would fly scared... They would fly with a different mindset entirely. Throwing caution to the wind and charging into a 3v1 is just silly in a HC format... But in the MA it is what seprates the men from the boys. Fly smarter not aggressively is the goal.

[Nathan60]

Ok....If I see numbers in A vs A, I will be sure to pad my score at the expense of yours like the other 8 guys who own you and somehow fly there without it being apparent in the arena selection screen.

The sad part is that I have only once (11 months ago) seen numbers above zero population and that only lasted a couple of hours before it went back to zero.

Why so serious?  Alls I said is there is good numbers and all weeks then I asked for the drugs your on If I touched a nerve Im sorry but I fail to why this would upset you, any way there has been roughly 10-12 players in the AVA all week that could handily beat me,  but thetas not the point my point is  that there has been 10-12 people in the AVA when I play 8-12 est, and that you have drugs   and can I haz?

[Puma44]

Everyone stand clear.  Krusty's head is about to explode. 

[Krusty]

Everyone stand clear! Puma's trolling!   

[Puma44]

PUH-leeze, Zoney....

The AVA is not more "hard core" at all... Its an arbitrarily decided set of rules that a select few think is "more elite" and "requiring more awesome skillz" that they mandate based upon their own prejudiced ideas taken from the IL2 community.

It's far more gamey than the MA, even. 1.0 fuel burn with bases 10 miles apart means every plane flies around near empty weight. Almost every time I'm in there it's nothing but people hiding from fights until they think they can pick without being seen. Flying without icons is akin to flying legally blind, and no pilot would be allowed up in the air, ever, with the kind of vision it provides. In reality you can spot airplanes with great clarity at very long ranges. The select few AvA bandwagon-riders use TrackIR and maximum zoom to get around this but don't be fooled -- they have found a way to game the limitations they set for themselves.

It isn't any more realistic nor is it any more elite, and the constant claims that it takes more skill, talent, and l33tness to fly in the AvA is just self-stroking on their part. They throw a condescending attitude into any conversation to the contrary and with a dismissive wave ignore any details, facts, or logical/scientific arguments that counter what they want to believe in.

This is the king of trolls.

[captain1ma]

PUH-leeze, Zoney....

The AVA is not more "hard core" at all... Its an arbitrarily decided set of rules that a select few think is "more elite" and "requiring more awesome skillz" that they mandate based upon their own prejudiced ideas taken from the IL2 community.

It's far more gamey than the MA, even. 1.0 fuel burn with bases 10 miles apart means every plane flies around near empty weight. Almost every time I'm in there it's nothing but people hiding from fights until they think they can pick without being seen. Flying without icons is akin to flying legally blind, and no pilot would be allowed up in the air, ever, with the kind of vision it provides. In reality you can spot airplanes with great clarity at very long ranges. The select few AvA bandwagon-riders use TrackIR and maximum zoom to get around this but don't be fooled -- they have found a way to game the limitations they set for themselves.

It isn't any more realistic nor is it any more elite, and the constant claims that it takes more skill, talent, and l33tness to fly in the AvA is just self-stroking on their part. They throw a condescending attitude into any conversation to the contrary and with a dismissive wave ignore any details, facts, or logical/scientific arguments that counter what they want to believe in.

The AVA is an alternative to the MA's. we have different settings that make it a little harder, and at the same time a little more interesting. its not for everyone. guys like krusty don't do well in that environment, because the icon range is much shorter for friendlies and 0 for enemy.  that doesnt mean its a bad place or elite, that just means its different and maybe, depending on your opinion, slightly more realistic, but different none the less. to every person its something else. give it a try or not, but bashing something you mostly never fly is elitism in itself.  Now back to your regularly scheduled program...............

[Karnak]

Krusty is overly combative, but basically correct about the realism claims and the advantage that TrackIR gives in a no icons environment.

[Nathan60]

PUH-leeze, Zoney....

Im sorry i love the AVA and am deffinatly onthre band wagon but I dont use track IR, nor am I zoomed in all the time but I dont blame those that do use it as  having unfair advantage as  anybody can get track IR), also I will never claim its hard to kill me  as =I have zero confedence in my ability in this game,  I simply like the AVA because the setups are not the hordefest you often find in the MA and the planets  are as time specific as the GM's can make it(I know, Karnak),people in there aren't as trollish as the MA(IN MY OPINION) nor elitist at all(in my EXPERENCE), Possibly  before I played s there could have been some bad seeds but, I don't let a bad experience at a McDonald's  in 1987 stop me from geeting a sweet tea and a dbl stack now and then. Holding gruges is  never the action of a truely wise man.

[deadstikmac]

No icons is great if you know what you're looking for i.e. american aircraft, luftwaffe, IJN etc. but with everyone flying anything how do you know if you are fighting a friendly or an enemy?

As you and your wing make last minute adjustments you put out on range vox
"Two ponys at twelve-five crusing 400 indicated, heading north, range check for contact, over"

You hear "Roger that northbound ponys me and my wingman are in long visual on airfield 3. We have what looks like three cons lifting and turning nose on. We're on the deck heading west to intercept, will come in over the top and bounce them if we drag them too you?"

"Big Roger That. We are comming in from the two o'clock vector or north by northeast of airfield 3" you reply.

"Roger that dragging them that too you on the deck" you hear.

"Roger That" you respond on range... Then on squad vox you tell your wing to nose on airfield 3.

Silence as you ingress in to help these guys with a 3v2 situation knowing you will quickly make it 4v0 

"Visual! Long eleven" your wingman says on squad vox

"Roger that long viz as well. Let me get them on range" "We got you guys on long viz and are comming down now..."