Author Topic: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!  (Read 25055 times)

Offline Vinkman

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2013, 12:59:13 PM »
Naaahh.... They did Lancaster... They added He111, to round it out (rule of 3) they need to redo the Boston! (or Ju88)

Make it an all-bomber update!

I'm betting on the yak-9/T   as the other Re-do for this release.  :aok
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Offline kilo2

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2013, 01:14:12 PM »
I wonder which H version we're getting?  There were quite a lot of them.

Now, I expect all of you guys who have been pushing for the He111 to use it as your primary bomber.  Not many Ju88s, B-26s or Lancasters allowed, got it?

I and I think many others asked for it primarily for scenarios/FSOs.


Maybe one to beaufighter fans.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2013, 01:37:14 PM »
Hrm.... Disturbing issues arrise from looking at the screenshots. It appears we have a bit of a hybrid on our hands.

Just 2 quick summaries of engine and gun differences between early 111H variants, and then why it's a problem.

Engines:
H-1 had 1010 hp engines
H-2 had 1100 hp engines
H-3 had 1200 hp engines
H-4 had (I think) 1300 hp engines
H-5 had 1300 then later 1340 hp engines

Armament:
H-2 introduced beam window guns, though they had a limited firing arc. mostly for rear angle shots from the sides where dorsal gunner couldn't see well. Beam gunner was added to crew (more weight). Many later removed these and the gunner to save weight.
H-3 introduced MG15 to front of ventral gondola, though there are many many many pictures of H-3s and later models with no gun here. It was often removed and the solid forward gondola fairing was used. It would only have glass here when the gun was present.
H-4 introduced method to replace one side internal bomb bay with a fuel tank, keeping other side for half bomb load. Also first version to introduce external bomb racks for large bombs which could not fit into the restrictive airframe. Only about 150 of this variant built, but it set the standard for most later marks.
H-5 was almost identical to H-4 but seldom (if ever) carried internal ords. It could carry 1 or 2 torpedoes externally, or a drop tank and a large bomb. It could carry 1 asymmetrical SC1000 bomb (2000lbs), and in rare cases (?) one SC2500 bomb (about 5000lbs, technically the rack could lift this, not sure if it was ever dropped in combat). Airframe empty weight also increased and landing gear had to be beefed up. H-1 weighed 6300kg empty, H-5 was 6950 kg empty.

Why it's an issue:

So technically we have the torps from the H-5, and that's understandable since we don't need 2 variants just to have torps on one of them. But what parts were mixed to give us this hybrid? What version do we have?

Just before the BOB, HALF of the He-111 fleet was He-111P models with some 500 Ps in service. These were flying with around 1000 to 1100 hp engines and limited external bombloads. The He-111H-4 added exernal bombloads to the H line, but more importantly it had much higher engine output than the H-2s and H-3s (and Ps) that were common during the BOB. H-4s only began production in 1940 and stopped in 1941, and the small numbers (150 give or take) aren't what flew and fought in the BOB. Representatively speaking.

So, do we have an H-2's performance with H-4 external racks just to add on torps and to add usefulness? Or do we have an H-4/H-5 which really has nothing to do with the Heinkels that fought in the Battle of Britain? Let's face it, the BOB is what this plane is needed for most.

It's really great to finally have the He-111, but sadly we may have the wrong variant.

Offline Karnak

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2013, 02:01:23 PM »
It would be nice to know what engines it is modeled with. The He111H-2 seems like the one we need, enginewise.  It would be a shame to get 1300 or 1340hp engines, giving it performance significantly above that of the models that fought in the Battle of Britain.  It would basically be another Ju88A-4 in that case, a bomber from 1941 or later being used as a stand in for the 1940 Battle of Britain, but facing off with 1940 Hurricane Mk I and Spitfire Mk I fighters.

You can't imagine the Battle of Britain being run with Hurricane Mk IIs, Spitfire Mk Vs and Bf109Fs can you?  Yet that is what we have in the Ju88A-4, but hopefully not the He111H.
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Offline Delirium

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2013, 02:02:55 PM »
It's really great to finally have the He-111, but sadly we may have the wrong variant.

I think you could find fault in someone finding a cure for cancer. "Hey! Cancer is gone but the drug trials state I have a 0.0001% chance of developing rectal cysts. No point in curing it at all now!"

Although, sadly, I do agree with this point.

Let's face it, the BOB is what this plane is needed for most.
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Offline Volron

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2013, 02:04:50 PM »
Hmm, in some of my previous posts, I said that for a whole tour (a new tour, not the middle of a current tour), I will ONLY fly the He-111 for that tour. :joystick:  I will be logging in more often to make good on that. :x  As for being intercepted?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP08RMumatI

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Offline Krusty

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2013, 02:09:02 PM »
I think you could find fault in someone finding a cure for cancer. "Hey! Cancer is gone but the drug trials state I have a 0.0001% chance of developing rectal cysts. No point in curing it at all now!"

Although, sadly, I do agree with this point.


You agree with me, that it is most needed for BOB, and yet you ignore the possibility that this variant we're getting might be post-BOB performance specs?

 :confused: :headscratch:

You have a funny kind of reading comprehension, or you just post to insult without actually reading the content of what you're being snarky about?  Which is it? Do we need the BOB variant (you agree with my concerns) or we don't (you disagree with my post)? You can't have it both ways. It's the heart of the matter for the Heinkel: Battle of Britain.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 02:13:46 PM by Krusty »

Offline Nathan60

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2013, 02:24:27 PM »
You agree with me, that it is most needed for BOB, and yet you ignore the possibility that this variant we're getting might be post-BOB performance specs?

 :confused: :headscratch:

You have a funny kind of reading comprehension, or you just post to insult without actually reading the content of what you're being snarky about?  Which is it? Do we need the BOB variant (you agree with my concerns) or we don't (you disagree with my post)? You can't have it both ways. It's the heart of the matter for the Heinkel: Battle of Britain.
Thats not what he said at all, he said you're a negative nancy but ion this case you are a correct negative nancy. Talk about a reading and comprension fail. Is it posisble wre could get a 2nd variant  so we can have a pure breed BOB version and a version that is usable in the LWA.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2013, 02:25:44 PM »
and a version that is usable in the LWA.
No such version was ever made of the He111.
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Offline Nathan60

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2013, 02:28:04 PM »
No such version was ever made of the He111.
LOL I bet you this; the later versions with the larger bomb load WILL be a cv killer.
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Offline Squire

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2013, 02:28:16 PM »
Coming to a Friday Squad Ops BoB setup near you... ;)
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Offline Krusty

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2013, 02:29:48 PM »
Thats not what he said at all, he said you're a negative nancy but ion this case you are a correct negative nancy. Talk about a reading and comprension fail. Is it posisble wre could get a 2nd variant  so we can have a pure breed BOB version and a version that is usable in the LWA.

Uhm... No. He quoted the one part he agreed with, that it was needed for BOB. He disagreed with everything else I typed by dismissing me as (as you put it) a "negative nancy" -- which is wrong.

If they gave us a He111 for the BOB but modeled it after the He-111A, we'd have the same problem. An He-111 is not just an "He-111" -- there were so many different performance variations, bombload capabilities, and differing levels of survivability and combat efficiency.

It's vital we get the RIGHT version, otherwise it's useless to us for the most important role it has in the BOB.

Yes it IS possible we will get multiple variants, though I doubt it. The default skin chosen was one shot down during the Battle of Britain, so CLEARLY it was intended to be the BOB-era plane. Yet the hybrid nature calls into question whether it will fit for this intended role or not.

These are important questions to ask before it's finalized. If they finalize it they almost never revisit the flight model.


P.S. Reading fail on Nath's part, on the front page news article itself: "We are looking to forward to seeing future Battle of Britain and other special events using this iconic Luftwaffe bomber."

It's VERY important if they got the later engine power from the H-4 or H-5 put on an earlier model H-2/H-3. It would be like modeling a Spit1 for explicit use in BOB but giving it a Spit5 engine.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 02:32:36 PM by Krusty »

Offline Karnak

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2013, 02:32:09 PM »
LOL I bet you this; the later versions with the larger bomb load WILL be a cv killer.
Still slow, still inadequately defended.

No, you would be able to use it in the LWA, but it would never be a good choice.  You can use the G4M1 in the LWA, I do at times, but that doesn't make it "usable in the LWA".

Also, what larger bomb load are you speaking of?  How large?
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Offline Volron

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2013, 02:33:47 PM »
Coming to a Friday Squad Ops BoB setup near you... ;)

When is the next one? :headscratch:
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Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
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What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
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Offline Krusty

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2013, 02:35:12 PM »
Volron, it won't be an FSO setup until they actually release it  :t

Right now it's just a screenshot. Be patient  :aok